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Surgical masks are also needed for the public, not just cloth masks

33 replies

Kokeshi123 · 31/05/2020 14:20

Cloth masks, including homemade ones, are much better than nothing at all---any kind of physical barrier, even a cotton scarf, is helpful for reducing the transmission of the virus.

However, paper surgical masks are superior to cloth ones, as this figure sets out. What's more, my own experience is that paper surgical masks tend to feel lighter and more comfortable in hot weather. I also have no doubt that they would make face covering easier for at least some of the people who are finding it difficult or uncomfortable to wear a cloth mask.

The countries which have been most successful in combatting COVID19 are predominantly making use of surgical masks for the general public, more than homemade cloth ones. My own feeling is that if we are serious about wanting people to wear masks through the hot months of summer, it might be wise to ensure that people have supplies of paper masks as well, so that people at least have an alternative if they find cloth masks too uncomfortable, and have the option of switching things up a little.

There has been a lot of contradictory public dialog about masks during this pandemic. In the early days, people in most Western countries were being told not to wear masks because they should "leave them for the healthcare professionals." As time has gone on, the message has started to change to "Leave professional masks to the professionals, and make your own mask from cloth." It does seem that stigma still lingers around the idea of wearing surgical masks, based on a continuing sense that wearing such a mask is taking them away from healthcare workers.

However, the example of many Asian countries should suggest that it is not too hard to greatly ramp up the production of surgical masks. The Taiwanese government (as soon as it heard about an "interesting" new coronavirus in China) basically went straight to the mask manufacturers and said "We will offer you a big injection of cash to massively increase production. In return, you need to let us control half of what you make and create a rationing system." In Japan, we import most of our surgical masks from China----we now have too many of them and shopkeepers are complaining that they have all these boxes of masks out front and can't shift them.

Clearly there are ways to ramp up production. I'd suggest that it might be an idea to do this on a large scale before the weather starts getting hot.

FWIW, I am generally a huge advocate of reusable everything (use washable nappies, washable cleaning clothes, carry my own coffee bottle and water bottles everywhere), but make an exception for masks because I want to be both safe and comfortable in hot humid weather.

Surgical masks are also needed for the public, not just cloth masks
OP posts:
Duckfinger · 31/05/2020 14:26

It stands to reason that medical grade masks are more effective than others. There really has never been any doubt about that.

I won't wear a mask as anything covering my mouth triggers my anxiety and gives me panic attacks. That said even if it didn't only 0.7% of people in my area have an active infection so I'll take my chances

Splodgetastic · 31/05/2020 14:28

I tried to wear a cloth mask and really struggled to breathe. I need to practise! It was also very hot from my breath.

Redolent · 31/05/2020 14:33

They were selling them today in M&S - 3 for £3. Not cheap or wearable everyday so I’ll save them for relatively m ‘risky’ trips eg to the GP or hospital, and use my washable ones on shopping trips.

ToothFairyNemesis · 31/05/2020 14:37

That said even if it didn't only 0.7% of people in my area have an active infection so I'll take my chances
That makes no sense, surgical masks protect others from you, not you from them.
@Duckfinger

PinkSparklyPussyCat · 31/05/2020 14:46

@Duckfinger I don't suffer from anxiety but was verging on a panic attack when I found out work want us to wear masks in the office when we return. I would rather stay at home indefinitely as I can't wear them.

I'm at the point where I'm thinking I'll either have to get signed off or hand in my notice.

ToothFairyNemesis · 31/05/2020 14:52

Wearing masks in the office is difficult but if it makes it safe for a colleague whose family member is shielding at home, then it should be a sacrifice worth making.

PinkSparklyPussyCat · 31/05/2020 14:55

It's really not as easy as that. It's not just a case of not wanting to wear a mask, it's the panic of something covering my face. It's not just a mask, it's anything - I can't wrap a scarf around my face in winter, can't have the bed clothes over my head etc.

Don't you think if it was just preference I'd do it?

ToothFairyNemesis · 31/05/2020 15:06

I didn’t mean you personally @PinkSparklyPussyCat you and Duckfinger clearly have a medical reason not to wear masks. That makes it more important for others that can to wear them.

PinkSparklyPussyCat · 31/05/2020 15:27

Sorry ToothFairyNemesis, I'm really on edge about it and took it personally.

MeadowHay · 31/05/2020 15:41

Oh my god Pink, I'm so glad I can WFH indefinitely, I can't wear a mask either (autism - sensory/anxiety reasons similar to yours). Atm I've been volunteering to go on the skeleton office rota throughout lockdown one day every 2/3 weeks which involves getting the bus to and from work. However I definitely will stop volunteering if we are required to wear a mask in the office, I can't do it, or if the bus companies mandate wearing one there. Does your role not lend itself to home working?

PinkSparklyPussyCat · 31/05/2020 15:59

I've been working from home since before lockdown and I don't think they are going to rush as back, or I hope not. I can do 95% of my job from home, and I'd be happy to go in on my own if I needed to for the rest as it wouldn't take long. I've been saying all along I can't wait to go back, not thinking for one minute I'd have to wear a mask, although I probably should have done!

ToothFairyNemesis · 31/05/2020 16:20

@PinkSparlyPusstCat it’s ok , I really didn’t word my post well at all.

picklemewalnuts · 31/05/2020 16:21

Two layers of T-shirt fabric is almost 5 times more effective than one. Presumably a T-shirt mask with a pocket for a tissue or coffee filter would be really effective.

Personally I'm not going far at all, so don't feel I need one. I've been in one shop three times over the whole period, always when it was quiet, never for more than ten minutes.

What we need is something really effective for bus drivers and passengers.

Crackerofdoom · 31/05/2020 16:44

More important than the material it is made from is making sure people are wearing them properly.

In Austria, I have seen so many people wearing them under their nose or the ones with ties only being tied at the top so it flaps away from the face when they breathe.

The cloth ones can be washed between uses. Because the reusable ones aren't cheap, people end up using the same mask for weeks without washing which is useless.

I have also seen people wearing them the wrong way round.

I don't thing the material they are made from is the major issue.

Crackerofdoom · 31/05/2020 16:46

.

Surgical masks are also needed for the public, not just cloth masks
TreestumpsAndTrampolines · 31/05/2020 16:55

At the height of the lockdown, the Asian supermarket near us still had boxes of disposable masks (admittedly for more than twice the normal price) so DP got a box and we've just been using those if we go in a shop (never needed to go any other enclosed space luckily)

Now they're back down to even cheaper than they were before -

EnlightenedOwl · 31/05/2020 16:57

@Kokeshi123

Cloth masks, including homemade ones, are much better than nothing at all---any kind of physical barrier, even a cotton scarf, is helpful for reducing the transmission of the virus.

However, paper surgical masks are superior to cloth ones, as this figure sets out. What's more, my own experience is that paper surgical masks tend to feel lighter and more comfortable in hot weather. I also have no doubt that they would make face covering easier for at least some of the people who are finding it difficult or uncomfortable to wear a cloth mask.

The countries which have been most successful in combatting COVID19 are predominantly making use of surgical masks for the general public, more than homemade cloth ones. My own feeling is that if we are serious about wanting people to wear masks through the hot months of summer, it might be wise to ensure that people have supplies of paper masks as well, so that people at least have an alternative if they find cloth masks too uncomfortable, and have the option of switching things up a little.

There has been a lot of contradictory public dialog about masks during this pandemic. In the early days, people in most Western countries were being told not to wear masks because they should "leave them for the healthcare professionals." As time has gone on, the message has started to change to "Leave professional masks to the professionals, and make your own mask from cloth." It does seem that stigma still lingers around the idea of wearing surgical masks, based on a continuing sense that wearing such a mask is taking them away from healthcare workers.

However, the example of many Asian countries should suggest that it is not too hard to greatly ramp up the production of surgical masks. The Taiwanese government (as soon as it heard about an "interesting" new coronavirus in China) basically went straight to the mask manufacturers and said "We will offer you a big injection of cash to massively increase production. In return, you need to let us control half of what you make and create a rationing system." In Japan, we import most of our surgical masks from China----we now have too many of them and shopkeepers are complaining that they have all these boxes of masks out front and can't shift them.

Clearly there are ways to ramp up production. I'd suggest that it might be an idea to do this on a large scale before the weather starts getting hot.

FWIW, I am generally a huge advocate of reusable everything (use washable nappies, washable cleaning clothes, carry my own coffee bottle and water bottles everywhere), but make an exception for masks because I want to be both safe and comfortable in hot humid weather.

You need to calm down OP
Duckfinger · 31/05/2020 17:51

@ToothFairyNemesis

That said even if it didn't only 0.7% of people in my area have an active infection so I'll take my chances That makes no sense, surgical masks protect others from you, not you from them. *@Duckfinger*
I know that, but if only 0.7% have it. It's highly unlikely I'm one of them if I am staying at home. I just think the whole mask thing is a distraction people wear them thinking it makes them immune so don't follow normal hygiene measures, and to be honest I consider social distancing pretty normal even before covid. I mean who wants to get within 6 feet of a stranger, on the rare occasion I use a train I don't sit by a stranger and stand near the doors if there aren't a few spare seats together. Visiting friends and family I chose a seat across the room. In fact me and DH got the tape measure out and discovered our natural sitting position in our front room we are almost always 4ft away from each other.

It is surprising how much we naturally distance, we are only more aware of it being enforced on us.

Kokeshi123 · 01/06/2020 01:54

You need to calm down OP

I'm actually one of the calmest people I know, believe it or not!

Japan appears to be have bent the curve on COVID19 without any actual lockdown (and the streets look almost normal right now). Similar scenes in Taiwan, HK, SK and many other places, where no full lockdowns have ever taken place, just less extreme measures like shutting down schools and crowded areas---and Taiwan didn't even close the schools! I think we have lucked out to an extent, but mask-wearing is almost certainly a big reason why this happened. If widespread mask-wearing can help the UK to open up schools and businesses earlier than otherwise, then the UK should be embracing this. It's a low-cost measure which appears to be effective.

I do find it rather odd that many of the same people who want lockdown lifted as quickly as possible appear to have a real dislike of masks.

OP posts:
Redolent · 01/06/2020 04:10

Why are people saying ‘calm down’ to a perfectly measured post? Is that David Cameron?

whatswithtodaytoday · 01/06/2020 04:38

It's been almost impossible to find paper masks, OP - all the ones on Amazon had terrible reviews saying they were poor quality or took forever to turn up. Even the cloth ones I ordered took three weeks to arrive, presumably due to high order volume.

If anyone knows of a source for good quality disposable masks please do share.

Redolent · 01/06/2020 04:42

@whatswithtodaytoday

It's been almost impossible to find paper masks, OP - all the ones on Amazon had terrible reviews saying they were poor quality or took forever to turn up. Even the cloth ones I ordered took three weeks to arrive, presumably due to high order volume.

If anyone knows of a source for good quality disposable masks please do share.

I posted earlier, but M&S are now selling them.

Had the same terrible experience buying masks on Amazon.

bumblingbovine49 · 01/06/2020 04:55

In Italy, they have set a price limit on surgical masks to ensure people can afford them..They are now becoming hard to find again as manufacturers choose to send them to countries where there is no price cap. It is complicated beyond belief to get surgical masks to everyone at a reasonable price. I wish it wasn't but it is.

I agree we should be wearing masks in all public indoor places with more than a handful of people in them

Namenic · 01/06/2020 05:59

Especially public transport - it would be good. I think that in terms of waste and cost that perhaps re-usable may be a more sensible approach for many people. But it might be different for those living with vulnerable or older people. Also, higher risk places like hospital or front-line staff facing many people per day. But it would be good to make it mandatory to enter certain enclosed places unless medical exception and necessary trip. I wonder whether a face shield may help some people?

It would be good to get a biodegradable, effective one. Apparently the Med is being polluted with PPE.

BarbaraofSeville · 01/06/2020 07:25

For masks to be effective, they would need to be changed several times per day and people would need to wear them properly, and dispose of them properly. Almost no members of the public meet this criteria.

There's an established hirearchy in health and safety, and use of PPE is only as a last resort in workplace settings and should also be followed for members of the public.

That's first to remove or reduce the hazard (social distancing), then use physical safety measures (eg perspex screens) and only then if the risk is still too high, use PPE.

If MoPs are effectively social distancing, and there are screens at shop counters, there is no need for PPE for short term interactions like paying for groceries as the risk will be very low.

Masks are probably a good idea for public transport but then reusable ones would be best, so that they can be washed and to avoid waste, otherwise everyone using public transport to get to work would need at least two new masks per day, which would massively increase demand, and be unaffordable to many, plus there's the waste issue.

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