Virus becomes aerosolised so spreads more easily than we thought. We should all wear masks!

[pinktaxi]

Very interesting article by a scientist, and if correct would explain why countries who wear masks routinely have fewer cases. Well, one of the reasons. Also why the virus spreads so easily amongst populations and became a pandemic so rapidly.

https://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/931320?nlid=1357232823&src=WNLLmdplsnews2005299mscpedit_nurs&uac=231210SV&spon=24&impID=2399615&faf=1

I swear every day I hear it is or isn’t aerosolized.

Masks are not the reason its lower in other countries. Masks are part of the reason but so is how they implemented lockdown, SD and many other factors.

Its an odd thing because often safety equipment can make people feel too safe, then they forget the other stuff they should do. Like staying in if you have a cough, washing hands regularly, getting too close to people, not wearing and removing it correctly.

The virus is areosolised. It can be if someone coughs, or you are in hospital and procedures are being undertaken that can areosolise it.

But on its own it doesn't hang around in the air that long or or waft about on the wind. If it did there would be far more cases of infection.

Thank u for sharing OP very useful info

The national association of singing teachers in the US held a conference (zoom or similar) a couple of weeks ago with epidemiologists and other scientific/medical experts. I watched the conference and was shocked at the research videos they showed of how particles in our breath are aerosolised and linger in the air in an enclosed space. Ordinary conversational speaking released far more particles, and singing even more.

They are doing more research and will broadcast another conference soon. This is going to have a huge impact on the music and theatre industry, both professional and amateur. I'm a singing teacher and following this very closely. I know a few local drama groups have rebooked theatres in September for shows they had to postpone. I'll be advising students who are members to stay away or wear masks throughout rehearsals and I won't be taking them back for face to face lessons for at least 3 weeks after the shows have finished.

If you want to order masks, or just want information, this is an excellent website:

areweoutofmasks.com/

@slartibartfastsbeard

The national association of singing teachers in the US held a conference (zoom or similar) a couple of weeks ago with epidemiologists and other scientific/medical experts. I watched the conference and was shocked at the research videos they showed of how particles in our breath are aerosolised and linger in the air in an enclosed space. Ordinary conversational speaking released far more particles, and singing even more.

They are doing more research and will broadcast another conference soon. This is going to have a huge impact on the music and theatre industry, both professional and amateur. I'm a singing teacher and following this very closely. I know a few local drama groups have rebooked theatres in September for shows they had to postpone. I'll be advising students who are members to stay away or wear masks throughout rehearsals and I won't be taking them back for face to face lessons for at least 3 weeks after the shows have finished.

Very early on there was a case of a choir rehearsal where 40/60 people became ill and several died (in the states, can’t remember exact details) it freaked me out and I tried to encourage work colleagues to pipe down as well as social distance. It would explain the relative low transmission rates in the Nordic countries as well where people tend to stand further away from each other and speak quietly.

Etinox I think that choir is what prompted the research. There's been at least one other choir too.

Given the average age of choristers in adult community choirs in the UK, it would be risky to start back before the research can offer reassurance.

@Trevsadick The point of the article is that it does hang around in the air for some considerable time in the right conditions. Being aerosolised means it floats far more effectively than a droplet. And further than the 2 metre distance.

Smells are volatile matter. That is a tiny fraction of material is aerosolised and when you smell something you are actually taking in a tiny fraction of what you smell into your nose. If that can happen with a molecule of eg. tobacco smoke, horse manure etc, then a tiny virus in a molecule of water can of course travel significantly more than 2 metres.

Masks aren't the only reason they are controlling the virus in China etc, but it certainly helps.

@slartibartfastsbeard A friend of mine sings in a choir and they were due to go into an elderly care home for a concert just as the virus story was getting out and before lockdown. She was very worried about it so I don't know if it went ahead. I hope not but her city was badly hit in the early days.

This aerosolising affect may be one of the reasons this virus spread so rapidly throughout the world.

Are these posts allowed now?

A lot of people have trying to say this months.

Every scientist and their grandma has an opinion. That doesn't make them correct. If you read the comments on this link, you will find a whole bunch of other distinguished scientists saying that it is flawed opinion and not adequately evidenced or researched. Right at the moment you can prove or disprove anything, often with the same data, because nobody really understands what is happening. But well done in finding an obscure link to an obscure scientists opinion to bolster your own opinions.

I agree that masks might help, and it's not much of a hardship to wear them so we should.

My husband is from Taiwan where people use masks in normal times, not just during this pandemic, but they have many many more measures in place than we do.

Not least, a sophisticated tracking and tracing system. The tracking and teaching system we have involves thousands of people being paid to watch Netflix all day:

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/may/30/boris-johnsons-test-and-tracing-system-britain-lockdown

Moondust001

Our government and others, have said its airborne. It's included in the safety advice now at daily briefings

@pinktaxi

Very interesting article by a scientist, and if correct would explain why countries who wear masks routinely have fewer cases. Well, one of the reasons. Also why the virus spreads so easily amongst populations and became a pandemic so rapidly.

[[https://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/931320?nlid=135723]]2823&src=WNLLmdplsnews2005299mscpedit_nurs&uac=231210SV&spon=24&impID=2399615&faf=1

Really need to calm down

Some of us have been reading the science for months and saying this and getting accused of scaremongering

She's acting like she's the only one to have said this -she's not!! She's right, but she's trying to make out it's new news.

It's why being outside is less risky than inside

Oh enlightenedowl you wise wise being. How altruistic of you to grace is with your learned presence.

Must be hard to patronise people with your head so far up your own Jacksie, so A+ for effort.

@PJ6M

Oh enlightenedowl you wise wise being. How altruistic of you to grace is with your learned presence.

Must be hard to patronise people with your head so far up your own Jacksie, so A+ for effort.

The country needs to return to normal the hysterical will have to be left behind

There's still not huge amounts of research about singing and aerosolisation. The choir in the US was the Skagit Chorake in Washington, and there was a similar case in Amsterdam and one in Yorkshire - but nobody knows if transmission was to do with aerosolised particles or because choirs tend to be very sociable with lots of hugging etc. The choral world is currently having lots of debates on this. Norway is currently the only country to have tentatively started up choral singing again, and their death rate (or could be infection rate - I can't remember) is currently 44 people per million, whereas ours is something like 547 per million, so we can't really compare yet or use the same tactics they are.

(I talk about choral singing as it's one of the things that pops up most in the aerosol debate)

EnlightenedOwl

The country needs to return to normal the hysterical will have to be left behind

How many deaths have you had in your country so far, then?

But but... you can still smell smells through a mask, so they don't help?

"Smells are volatile matter. That is a tiny fraction of material is aerosolised and when you smell something you are actually taking in a tiny fraction of what you smell into your nose. If that can happen with a molecule of eg. tobacco smoke, horse manure etc, then a tiny virus in a molecule of water can of course travel significantly more than 2 metres. "

I'm not going to be wearing a mask, because I'm not travelling on buses or spending lots of time in confined spaces.

If you are at most risk of being within 2 metres of an infected person for at least 15 minutes, there advice to wear them in supermarkets is contradictory. Unless you shuffle along right next to a stranger doing your shopping, slowly. Also agree that most people either don't wear them properly (looking at you, lady in ALdi who had it over her mouth but not her nose), or are constantly fiddling with them. Masks are itchy, uncomfortable and unbearably hot in this weather.

So I won't be wearing one, thanks.

This isn't news though.

Many things can be 'aerosolised' by us coughing, sneezing. But those things are not, themselves, aerosol.

And yes, smells travel through masks. You need a better understanding of the subject or you'll flip flop between fear and abject horror about the virus and what reasonable precautions can be taken and what the actual mechanisms are.

Fudgewhizz there's a lot of research going on. The article you refer to which suggests hugging etc. plays a big part has been met with almost universal disagreement from the singing and choral world. I've been part of many and varied choirs for over 40 years and hugging is not common on arrival or departure at all. The author of the article was clutching at straws in order to resume group singing at their church imho.

then advice. Not there advice.

We've been told we will have to wear a mask when we go back to the office. I'm hoping we'll get the option to work from home as I panic and can't breathe with anything over my face.

There's also concern in church groups because singing is such an integral part of communal worship.