More than a respiratory disease

[Xtinalee]

Thoughts on this? Hoping it’s true to help find a cure ASAP
elemental.medium.com/coronavirus-may-be-a-blood-vessel-disease-which-explains-everything-2c4032481ab2

"Xtinalee -whichscientists from Oxford University? Can you be more specific? Geologists, geneticists, ecologists, social scientists?"
That's quite arsy effing. Oc course it's not going to be geologists, ecologists or social scientists. Why would you even say that? She can send it to whoever she likes. What would you do with the information?

TabbyMumz - the OP claimed that "Oxford" approved of her comments.

That was so vague as to be effectively meaningless, though presumably the OP thought that making the claim meant something.

So I was asking for clarification for what she meant by "scientists" as that is also a very vague term.

It's only important insofar as the OP seemed to think it was important enough to mention. I'm not sure how knowing she wrote to a random scientist at Oxford adds anything to her point.

Maybe you can explain?

"TabbyMumz - the OP claimed that "Oxford" approved of her comments."
No she didnt. She said they appreciated them. There is a big difference between "approved" and "appreciated". And yes, it was vague. What do you mean by "maybe I could explain"? Again I'm not sure why you are coming across as so argumentative?

Whatever. Some random scientist who lives in Oxford "appreciated" her point.

Lovely.

I'll leave you to it, Tabby - no interest in this at all. Doubt anyone else cares either.

I just didn't anyone to be misled into thinking there was actually any scientific validity to the link the OP posted, in the absence of more convincing sources.

Now we've cleared up that's it's just a random, unproven hypothesis, I'm happy to move on.

Effing, I was just curious as why the anger throughout the thread? I was wondering why you were like that? I dont think many medical reports or suggestions etc have been peer reviewed as there just isnt opportunity, so we can just take it as it comes, ie an interesting article.

I'm not angry?

I am persistent though - particularly after a pp (AKissAndASmile) suggested that the advice given in the link in the OP was actually CONTRARY TO MEDICAL ADVICE. And potentially dangerous.

I wouldn't want to feel that anyone reading this thread might come away from it with the idea that they should abandon their prescribed pills just because some randomer on MN had said so.

Yes, I would like to know specifically which scientists at Oxford you notified OP. Also if you could share their response or part of it that would be interesting.

As someone with a lifelong syndrome that predisposes me to blood clots I am concerned about this aspect of Covid.

"I just didn't anyone to be misled into thinking there was actually any scientific validity to the link the OP posted, in the absence of more convincing sources."

The report was mainly saying about blood clots and how covid is causing them. As you said, there has been numerous reports and medical articles about this, and you seemed to agree that is fact? So the only thing I can see you have taken umbridge to is that the article goes on to say how the blood clots are formed, which doesnt seem to be any different to what medics say elsewhere. Or is it that they have said it seems to be a vascular infection that you dont agree with? The stroke association have posted this article, so seem to agree with its validity?
Just genuinely interested. Of course you are right, others may not be.

"I am persistent though - particularly after a pp (AKissAndASmile) suggested that the advice given in the link in the OP was actually CONTRARY TO MEDICAL ADVICE. And potentially dangerous."
I'm sorry but could you explain? Someone who read the article on here, said the advice in the link was contrary to medical advice and potentially dangerous" where did it say that? I dont understand that comment as there wasnt any advice given? What was the advice that was dangerous? Dangerous to who? Anyone reading the article? Or other medics foing something with the information?

"I am persistent though - particularly after a pp (AKissAndASmile) suggested that the advice given in the link in the OP was actually CONTRARY TO MEDICAL ADVICE. And potentially dangerous."
Effing...I've gone through the last couple of pages and akissandasmile didnt say that at all. She was referring to people stopping taking their ace inhibitors which was completely unrelated to the ops article.

I'd like to know why there is so much information about covid causing clots, but they dont add conditions where people are susceptible to clots onto the shielding list or tell them they are vulnerable.

@TabbyMumz

From what I have been told they don't yet have clear data on whether people who have conditions predisposing them to blood clots are at raised risk (compared to those without such conditions) of blood clots with covid. It seems to me that even if the mechanisms of the clotting problem are different, the combined risk would be greater, but I am no expert. They need a decent sized sample of people who are in ICU with covid and also have those conditions. More data will emerge on this. They seem to be focusing on the most severe cases as it is thought to be at that point that the clotting becomes an issue. However, we have been hearing worrying reports of strokes etc in people who appear well previously so I don't know what to think.

Certainly if someone has a thrombosis related condition they should try to make that information accessible to anyone treating them for covid, and call the thrombosis team they usually see for advice if they get ill.

Quite early on, two experts ( virologist and epidemiologist ) were saying on Newsnight that the latest thinking was that rather than just respiratory, it was a disease that provoked an inflammatory reaction throughout the whole body, involving all organs.

I was surprised at the time that their interviews weren’t more widely reported. I’m certainly no scientist, but their summations were eminently understandable.

There was a lot of speculation early on in this about ace inhibitors putting people at higher risk of catching covid and of having severe illness. I think it was something to do with an increase in receptors of a kind that made it easier for the spiky virus particles to latch on. However people were told on no account to stop taking the drugs, and the last I heard they had not found evidence for the drugs raising risk after all. However, I can't quite remember so I wouldn't advise anyone to think the drugs make them either more or less safe without taking expert advice. Some links below. The last link is from early on, the NICE one is v recent.

www.guysandstthomas.nhs.uk/our-services/cardiovascular/specialties/cardiology/heart-failure/coronavirus-update-heart-failure-service.aspx

www.nice.org.uk/advice/es24/chapter/Key-messages

www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2020/03/200323101354.htm

Interesting that the first link does suggest that they are looking at whether these drugs actually have a protective effect.

"They seem to be focusing on the most severe cases as it is thought to be at that point that the clotting becomes an issue."

Yes inkpaperstars, I agree, thankyou. They do seem to focus on the most severe cases, however, people with blood conditions, who have never clotted before are now starting to clot, when they've been asymptomatic, and I dont think this data is being looked at. There are many fb groups for people with genetic blood conditions and lots of people are reporting this on there. Plus, there has been an increased amount of strokes and a lot more of these being younger and in good health previously.

Check out Medcram on YouTube -- www.youtube.com/user/MEDCRAMvideos

It's a medical education channel run by a respiratory physician and it has been working through this theory for some weeks now.

Thanks Tabby I will check out the video. I am not on FB but what you aree describing is something I am worried about. I agree the clotting issues among people who weren't in hospital with a severe case seem to be going under the radar a bit.

So are the FB groups indicating that people who have conditions that could cause clots, but haven't actually done so before, are now experiencing clots alongside covid infection? Including infections that up to that point appeared mild? If so I suppose they need to look at whether the same thing is happening in people who don't have the pre existing conditions, or if people with pre existing conditions are more likely to suffer clots before ending up in hospital with other covid issues.

"So are the FB groups indicating that people who have conditions that could cause clots, but haven't actually done so before, are now experiencing clots alongside covid infection"
Yes. There has been a few different people on thes fb groups who know they have a genetic condition that could cause them to clot, but up to now never have, but then they suddenly get small clots and dvts alongside having mild covid. The conditions I'm talking about are factor 2, factor v leaden etc. Some of them werent on thinners because they have never clotted before but now are on them. My concern is there are probably hundreds of people in this category not on thinners, and more who dont even know they have the condition.

Wow @TabbyMumz that is really worrying

There is lots of separate pieces of research now indicating that COVID-19 causes clotting and inflammatory reactions in blood vessels, making it essentially a blood disease.

I had "mild" COVID-like symptoms in late March (as in, the 111 medics that came to assess me at home decided I was not quite unwell enough to be admitted to hospital), and couln't quite make sense of the pain in my legs (not muscular, not nerves), but thinking about it, I had that same kind of pain before: painful, "heavy" legs in pregnancy due to poor blood circulation.

A few appreciated actually. It’s no big deal but it could point to the article having some credibility

They’re all professionals not random people

@Xtinalee up to you but if that pic is of your personal Twitter you might want to delete it or block out the name for privacy on here.

@Inkpaperstars I was going to but couldn’t be bothered lol