Why can't secondary schools do lessons via zoom?

[Dickorydockwhatthe]

I know not every child will have access to a computer or be able to log online but I'm surprised our school has not attempted it or even pre recorded lessons like the online oakwork academy. I know most private schools are setting up lessons via zoom. I really hope the government and schools take this into consideration for our children especially those coming up for GCSE's next year. It's just seems our children will be disadvantaged.

I'm sure the schools do have the childrens best interest at heart...not sure i could say the same for the unions...some of which seem more intent on being devisive than working towards solutions

The unions first job is to protect their workers. It's the role of the Dept of Ed to come up with solutions and workable guidance (and funding when it's needed).

As far as I've seen (not in the UK) all the English unions have done is raise very reasonable concerns.

Are you telling me that all the teaching unions are singing from the same hymn sheet?

@CallmeAngelina

I didn't think you were calm because this thread has been about zoom/teams lesson delivery and you were implying that teachers could catch covid19 as.per the care homes...which I would pretty much guess is impossible via t'internet.

is @TheNortherner a paid poster?? Just been reading about those

I think it’s really interesting how schools approach it. As I said earlier our state comprehensive is doing about 75% live lessons. We also get emails if the children aren’t attending and there have been emails about behaviour on teams too which seems to be ok now. Year 12 exams are happening via teams too.

@Staff, Either that or sponsored by Gordon's, because her post immediately prior to my comment about Covid, had mentioned the Union stance. So my post was entirely relevant.

Thought so. I am certain I had to tell another poster to put the wine away and go to bed the other night!

I am teaching live lessons to year 10 and 12 via teams in a state school.

Pupils aren’t allowed video on
Teacher can opt for no video and be audio online if they prefer
2 teachers per session : 1 to monitor the chat system and the other to present.

It’s very labour intensive both setting up and delivering hence why we are only offering year 10 and 12 for now.

schools in Scotland been using teams for weeks.

@CallmeAngelina
@StaffAssociationRepresentative

I'm neither, but good job for finding comfort in each other.
Angelina, your comment was irrelevant re the care home situation because the discussion was about virtual schooling and if anything how the unions have differing opinions on It, but you believe/misinterpret whatever you want to fit in with your agenda.

My daughter has Zoom lessons---but individual ones. From tutors. I pay through the nose for them. 1-1 lessons are what you need with Zoom in my experience. You get the interactive element, the concept-checking, the teacher can make sure they have understood things and give constant feedback. If the student does not understand something, they can easily ask, though in fact a good teacher will usually spot this first by asking the right questions. You can also discuss your preferred time-slot with your tutor and do the session at the time that is right for both of you.

DD also watches educational videos on Youtube to learn about things or learn how to do things. Recorded videos are not interactive, but you can pause when necessary and watch them as many times as you like and go back ("Mum, I didn't get that!" "Well, why not go back and watch those last five minutes once again?" "Hang on-let me just pause for a moment while I explain that last point another way, as it's quite tricky"). And your child can of course watch them whenever you and they like-you choose your perfect time.

Zoom lessons FOR A WHOLE BUNCH OF STUDENTS do not actually allow either of these things and are the worst of both worlds IMO. They are held "At this time, on this day"---that could be a time that is very inconvenient for the child or parent or both, especially if every person in the household does not have their own device or if there are noise issues and parents are trying to work at the same time. And the students cannot easily stop the lesson and say "I don't understand!" (the "thumbs-up" thing is awkward, and most students will be embarrassed to flag the teacher in front of their peers and admit that they are lost). And unlike with a prerecorded lesson you can't watch it again and again, as most teachers will not allow recording for safety reasons.

I have tutored kids through Zoom and I think it works best for very small groups at most. Ideally one on one. Anything other than that, prerecorded is best as it allows the student to set the agenda.

If I were queen of the world, I'd have the education system simply deliver the Oak system en masse to everyone, so that individual teachers could spend their time on going through pupils' work to see how what they are managing/not managing to do, and giving a 40-minute Zoom/phone session to each pupil once a week to go through any weak points that were evident in their last week's work, followed up by some extra work that the teacher would choose which would practice those areas.

Ie, Emily works on her Oak work each week, delivered from a central platform. Her teacher looks through her work, notices things like "she's grasped how to do long multiplication but is making errors due to not being solid with her tables." During her one-a-week 40-minute Zoom session, the teacher takes her through her tables once again (among other things), and sends her some times-table practice worksheets for Emily to do in addition to her Oak stuff. The teacher's work would be that of looking through Emily's work, working out what needs focusing on, doing the Zoom session with her 1x/week, and pulling out the best additional-practice materials and sending them to her.

Zoom can be set to "Share screen" with only the student's work appearing on the screen throughout the session----that way, no video footage of the teacher or student is being shared. That said, the security issues of Zoom still need some work. Phone calls could be substituted for Zoom if necessary or desired.

Well, that would be my preferred system, anyway!

I agree op. They keep emailing random crap about drawings when what we need is english, maths and science online tutoring not bloody draw, dance and meditate challenges.

@Wagamamas your school might do that. Take it up with them. Not all schools are. Many are doing video lessons.

Oak doesn't produce any work for teachers to look at kokeshi. What you are suggesting, then, is that that all children do some other centralised schools' work (which just happens to match the curriculum is a few powerful MATs, no one has said it is a better curriculum) which is not set by the child's school, and then the teacher looks at work done by pupils which the teacher themselves hasn't set? That is so muddled I don't really get the point. The most important things are engagement (live and/or videoed lessons do not equal engagement) and quality feedback.

It is also crap for English...as are nearly all learning platforms.

In this whole debate many people are confusing quantity with quality and technology and whistles and bells with better pedagogy.

You seem also to be suggesting each child gets personalised feedback? How does that work in secondary schools? The poor kids would never get time to do the work! And the teachers would never get time to look at it..

Just so everyone knows, Google Classroom and Teams both do these magical things that Zoom does (eg screen share) and are far more secure. Classroom, in particular, was actually designed for teaching!

I do, however, agree with everything you say about why a lesson via video type call to large groups doesn't work. And that is the main problem here with the clamour for them. Each parent only imagines their own individual child being on the receiving end.

I mean obviously it would be lovely if each child could get on with work at their own place and then receive individual feedback. but it just isn't time practical.

Been teaching live via Microsoft teams the whole of lockdown. Videos off. No issues whatsoever.However:
Small classes
All students have tablet or other

Disadvantaged students:
I don’t think this argument really holds. Surely it’s better to get the right kind of lessons to some students, rather than none?

Yup, the class sizes and age are an issue. I got used to live teaching with my lovely year 12 class. 10 dedicated students used to seminar style learning. We have a little chat while everyone arrives then it's mics off and recording starts. Year 10 had PowerPoints with narration to start with. They liked it as they could access whenever and pause and go back over while they were getting used to it. Video lessons are intense for teacher and student and it can be exhausting. We do a mix now. We use Teams and I can share my screen, files, set quizzes and assignments.
However, some of the students do struggle to use it. And are still accessing at strange times. We did a timed essay on Friday afternoon. It was to be submitted immediately after. I got an email with work attached at 1am this morning.

I have managed to learn how to use teams - mid 50s. I am not a tech wizard by any means
One note is great for seeing what the kids are actually doing
Absolutely zero safeguarding issues up to now
GCSE and A level grading took about 6 hours max

What's the grading got o do with it?

I have to say I'm not sure how convinced I am by their protestations of not knowing how to use Teams. I do know our IT team have been busy helping students

@Kokeshi123 there isn’t enough time in the week for every pupil to have an individual 30-minute Zoom session.

@piggywaspugwashed
Re grading - just referencing that it took time, but not as long as some teachers have commented, which ties in with all the issues about working lots of extra hours.

Right... not commented on at all on this thread re grading! Thanks for the solidarity!

FWIW you have just said you have small class sizes so small year groups. I wonder how much longer you think grading a core subject (with two different GCSEs) with year groups of 400 and departments of 12 teachers might have taken?

If we had been doing live learning at that point something would have had to give.

Many people on the thread have acknowledged that live learning is more intense , exhausting and takes longer to plan. I am definitely spending longer on planning remote resources because it involves a whole new way of thinking.