Will those having to quarantine for 14 days be paid sick pay?

[itsgettingweird]

I know many companies have been able to pay sick or use sickness policy during lockdown for isolating staff.

But what happens if it's forced quarantine after flying into the country?

For example. I have got a holiday booked the end of August. I have - ever since this was declared a global pandemic - expected not to go.
I have continued to pay instalments as I can't cancel without losing money. Balance is due 2 weeks before I fly.
Short and long of it is payment so far covers flights and I'm aware it'll take up to 8 months for that to come back and I've accepted it. I knew balance wouldn't be taken as they make decisions weeks in advance.

However now it's very unclear what will happen 3 months from now. It's unclear how long quarantines will last for country entry across Europe and who will release quarantine when.

So my question is does anyone know what happens if your holiday goes ahead but you must still quarantine on return to the UK?

Will you then be issued a not fit to work certificate because this is enforced rather than illness?

I'm also wondering if it's not just easier for countries to agree that holidays won't happen and refunds can be given if they still think returning requires quarantine if the receiving country isn't enforcing it and you go.

I also wondered if anyone has any information beyond what tabloids have printed (!) with regards information such as some airlines flying the routes with empty planes because it then means they don't have to issue refunds. Apparently fuel is 45% of costs and so they still make a profit and even more so as they don't need a full cabin staff and baggage staff etc.

I know I am extremely fortunate to have been able to have booked a summer holiday abroad. And I have all along said I'd rebook with same airline and travel company if they are fair with refunds. I actually planned to book a more expensive trip as would have a further year to pay the extra.

I would be happy to move ours to next year. I hope that's an option.

Sorrelblackbeak
Lots of travel insurance policy’s don’t cover you if the FCO tells you not to travel It’s hidden away in the small print .
A lot of people don’t realise this
Mine definitely didn’t cover this

@SorrelBlackbeak That's all fine and well if FCO advice remains the same. The issue here is if FCO advice chances and holidays are allowed but the quarantine is in place. Most people don't have enough annual leave to take an extra 14 days to cover the quarantine period, but stand to lose thousands if they cancel. Let's not forget most holidays were booked waaaay before coronavirus even existed.

My title doesn't indicate I expect it. It asks if that's what will happen? It's a fair and general question and I went onto explain that I was asking because there's so much misinformation out there I wondered if anyone had the actual situation knowledge.

Fro me this a moral decision. If I go because it runs I return 11 days before term starts. As a salaried staff member that's 3 days pay I lose. Manageable for me. It's also 3 first days of term. Day 1 is an inset.
So I then miss the first 2 days of term which are important for students. Even more so with having to home learn this term and our year 10's having to start final year with such the gals they have had.
So if I go financially I'm fine. But morally I would feel bad. But also I can't stand to lose all that money for nothing. Being financially stable is different to being secure and money not mattering.

Sunk cost. At this point you're saving money you would otherwise spent.

@itsgettingweird Don't let the nasty's get to you. Unfortunately we just don't know and that's the frustrating thing isn't it. Damn coronavirus!

OP I suspect the enforced quarantine will not be in place at the end of August. It was added reluctantly and far too late to be useful. As you say a 14 day quarantine period effectively means most people can't go abroad so I suspect that FCO advice about traveling abroad will remain in place for as long as the quarantine advice does.

It is rubbish losing a holiday. We ended up not going on a ski break in March as France looked too risky and we were worried about getting home. Sure enough lockdown started 2 days after the date we were due to go but didn't get a penny of our money back.

I think you have fallen for the sunk cost fallacy

In your shoes I would make the decision to stop paying and cancel

OR somehow get permission from employer to miss those days due to quarantine

It is still a choice to holiday abroad, not a “right” even though it may feel like that.

Anyone who is paying/booking a summer holiday is risking their money and face quarantine

Quarantine is unlikely to fall under “sick pay” any time soon (ever)

It’s not fair, maybe, but I honestly don’t understand why you’ve kept up the payments. Best to cut your losses

OP please stop and think about the millions of other people dealing with unfair situations. You're one of them. All you can do is try to accept the situation, and let go of any expectation of it being made fair somehow.

IMO the unfair situation you find yourself in whilst being a huge shame pales into insignificance compared to others such as: Those made redundant who could have been furloughed; those being expected to perform as usual whilst wfh but who have young kids to care for; those still working full time but on a reduced salary (my DH); those with sick loved ones who can't visit them or god forbid have a proper funeral for them; those whose wedding plans have been cancelled; people who die without a loved one present; parents struggling with DC with SN whose help has been withdrawn due to schools closing, small business owners who don't fit criteria and are getting zero help; care workers without proper PPE....... the list goes on!

I don't think anyone is being nasty, honestly. It's just all down to a shit situation. But theres no answer that is good for everyone. There have got to be losses in all this.

I've lost a holiday too, but I've cancelled what I can.

Most people don't have enough annual leave to take an extra 14 days to cover the quarantine period, but stand to lose thousands if they cancel

It’s not a nice choice but it is still a choice. Job or holiday.

I asked if it was going to be the same as when people had to isolate during lockdown

Why did you have to isolate?

"Fro me this a moral decision. If I go because it runs I return 11 days before term starts. As a salaried staff member that's 3 days pay I lose. Manageable for me. It's also 3 first days of term. Day 1 is an inset.
So I then miss the first 2 days of term which are important for students. Even more so with having to home learn this term and our year 10's having to start final year with such the gals they have had."

Just a moral decision? Are you sure your employer will actually give you the extra time off?!

I looked at cancelling! It'll cost me more money than I've already paid.

Timeline has thus been so far:

Nov 2019. Book holiday and pay £80. No ones even heard of CV.
Feb/mar/Apr 3 instalments due.
Feb - nothing about pandemic or holidays cancelled.
Mar - we're going into lockdown and informed by company to pay and refunds will be given.
Apr - looked at cancelling but was more than instalment and holiday company said pay or lose money. Also informed timescale current,h for flights part of holiday 3-4 months so I knew it would take a long time recover that.

Now - information seems to be holidays may run but you may have to quarantine on return. For me that's 3 days wages. For some it's 2 weeks. No one was given this condition when told to pay. Goalposts are moving.
If I had known I'd have cancelled before feb payment or even March when cancellation was equivalent to what I'd paid. But I followed what travel company said. TBF to them it's not their fault either.

But I don't think people should just think it's ok that people lose money because of a decision taken out of their hands. And by that I mean governments quarantine rather than CV. No one could predict or control that!

Trevs because I had suspected CV. Diagnosed over phone no tests available. So I had 7 days sick and then 7 days further as ds had to isolate for 14 days and so he couldn't go to school. Ds is disabled so needed me to stay home with him. I WFH the second week but they only gave me small amounts as I was very lethargic for weeks.

Flowery they'll have no choice if the government says I'm not allowed into work. They can refuse to pay me (which it seems is what's happening) but if I phone in sick because I've been enforced into quarantine they can't really do anything. But many many employers are going to face this post holiday or not. It's just as possible I could be put into quarantine (as could anyone) via track and trace.

”Flowery they'll have no choice if the government says I'm not allowed into work.”

The government won’t be saying you’re not allowed into work. It will be your choice, in the full knowledge that you won’t be able to attend work afterwards, to go on your holiday anyway. The government won’t be forcing you to go.

”They can refuse to pay me (which it seems is what's happening) but if I phone in sick because I've been enforced into quarantine they can't really do anything.“

You’d phone in sick when you’re not? Why would you do that? You mean you’d pretend you hadn’t gone and had coincidentally become ill?

”But many many employers are going to face this post holiday or not.”

I honestly don’t think you’re right there. I genuinely think most employees wouldn’t swan off on their holiday in the full knowledge they’d require additional time off and just say their employer will have to lump it and let them have the time off and will have no choice.

I think most employees, when deciding whether they can go on their holiday, will talk to their employer about whether it is possible to accommodate additional time off, and on what basis, and will then either come to an agreement about unpaid leave or wfh, or won’t go.

I may be being naive (which would be odd as I’ve seen plenty of CF behaviour from employees and employers alike in my time) and I’m sure there will be some employees who know they are not authorised to be off but go ahead anyway. But I think most won’t.

But I don't think people should just think it's ok that people lose money because of a decision taken out of their hands.

Do you think this isnt happening across the board already?

Lots of indignation on here at a question which loads of people will be asking. As an employer we've decided that if our employees have pre booked leave before the pandemic, they can go and quarantine by wfh on return once this calendar year. 90% organisation will be able to do this. We can manage the others temporarily. Anything more is likely to require unpaid leave.

That's what I'll be doing if it works out - due to sheer good luck, we'd booked dates which leave just enough room after return that 3 out of the 4 of us can do this prior to school restarting. All depends what rules the destination country has in force though so I'm not counting any chickens.

”As an employer we've decided that if our employees have pre booked leave before the pandemic, they can go and quarantine by wfh on return once this calendar year. 90% organisation will be able to do this.”

That’s great for you. Many many employers and/or many jobs won’t be able to do this, and people just not turning up for a couple of weeks will represent a significant problem, need to find cover, disruption etc. Lots of people can’t work from home.

I phone in sick because I've been enforced into quarantine they can't really do anything.

They can sack you. It’s misconduct.

I would think this will be treated as any other conduct issue...
Employee: can i have 4 weeks holiday, 2 in spain, 2 to self isolate.
Employer: no
Employee: goes anyway.
Employer: i declined your holiday request, heres a letter inviting you to a conduct disciplinary.

^^ Exactly.

@Footywife
I highly doubt those who are lambasting you would be happy to lose such large sums of money.

If you have chosen to put such large sums into your holiday, one would assume that you can afford said holiday.

So your loss is as proportionate to a poorer earner who may have booked a caravan for 3 nights in Skegness.

So, no I wouldn't be happy, but I certainly don't wish to spend my time sympathising over it beyond its an unfortunate turn of events, but you can afford the loss, albeit noone wishes that to be the situation that unfolds.

Travel insurance will hopefully pay out. If it doesn't que sera sera. There are so many so much worse off right now and they deserve our sympathy and empathy.

I highly doubt those who are lambasting you would be happy to lose such large sums of money.

OP wouldn’t be losing the money, though. OP would lose the holiday. The money is spent.