Immunity certificates. So your life is stopped until you have had it?

[MrsPear]

Am I reading right this morning. So if you have had it you will get a certificate and told to life your life. But if you have not had it then you have to live a life of restriction? Well I’m sorry but no. No more sitting at home. I’m telling mum I’m visiting next week.

My understanding is that there is no immunity from this as if it mutates, it will become a new strain and anyone, whether they have suffered or not, will be up for grabs.
I don't know what the answer, as a lot of policy seems to be mix of maybe, but do not take any notice of the tabloid press.
This may help
www.gov.uk/coronavirus

www.bbc.com/news/explainers-52530518

It’s still just a possibility floated by one member of a divided cabinet @Luvacuppatea , which The Times does actually make clear. OP is ranting away as if this is now certificate apartheid in action,

How are we supposed to get immunity if we are social distancing and the like in order NOT to get the thing in the first place? If the only way we can get to do anything good is to be immune then I'm taking my chances and abandoning the rules.

They will definitely want to keep track of people who have an antibody test on the nhs so they can monitor them and see if they do get re infected, gather data etc.

It seems to give you some immunity as I haven’t heard of one health worker worldwide who has had it twice, please correct me if i’m Wrong with a link to say otherwise? It may mutate but if it does we probably would have to start again with a vaccine. So we either stay in lockdown forever, as when second, third, fourth wave starts, say from someone bringing it in from abroad, we can’t keep our boarders shut either, surely the only other option is herd immunity?

There is no real suggestion that the virus will mutate sufficiently to evade either our own immune defences or a vaccine.

I think this article explains it well:

www.city-journal.org/coronavirus-vaccine

I've never had chicken pox either ( I'm 55)
It ripped through school in year seven and I was so upset I couldn't have time off.
I haven't had Covid either.

My understanding is that there is no immunity from this as if it mutates, it will become a new strain and anyone, whether they have suffered or not, will be up for grabs.

I think your understanding is wrong. Immunity does not have to be absolute to be useful but to be 100% sure of safety (in terms of spread) it does.

Take the 2009 swine flu epidemic, completely new strain of flu that impacted on younger people worse than older people because it had similarities with a strain from years ago. That is what stopped that pandemic being worse. It didn’t necessarily mean they didn’t get it or were not at all contagious but it made it a milder illness because their bodies could fight it more easily.

Every minor mutation does not equal zero immunity it would quite possibly just lessen the immunity/ eventually with mild symptoms mean they were mildly ill. But if they were working in a care home this may well not be enough protection.

But the point is right now no one actually knows what the immunity pattern will be. But it is highly unlikely to be either 100% effective for ever or no immunity at all.

I caught chicken pox by spending an hour or two in the same room as a girl who had it when I was at Brownies aged about 8.

She ran around touching everyone's hand shouting 'tag you've got chicken pox' and lo and behold, more or less the entire Brownie pack, and their siblings, classmates etc developed it in the coming days.

Maybe that was a deliberate 'chicken pox party' arrangement?

But OP, about visiting your mum, if you stay more than 2 metres apart and meet outside the chances of you giving her COVID-19 or vice versa is virtually zero, (strictly this should be a public place but if she has a garden that allows you to sit more than 2 metres apart and is accessible without entering the house the risk is equally low) and unless neither of you have been out in public anywhere, you're more likely to catch it in the supermarket etc.

the80s you're also invited to my Corona party

Show your papers to be out on the streets ? Where have we seen that before

I've noticed recently more material coming out concerning possible cross immunity from the common cold, eg
mobile.twitter.com/ProfKarolSikora?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Eauthor

www.cell.com/cell/fulltext/S0092-8674(20)30610-3
Understanding adaptive immunity to SARS-CoV-2 is important for vaccine development, interpreting coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19) pathogenesis, and calibration of pandemic control measures. Using HLA class I and II predicted peptide ‘megapools’, circulating SARS-CoV-2−specific CD8+ and CD4+ T cells were identified in ∼70% and 100% of COVID-19 convalescent patients, respectively. CD4+ T cell responses to spike, the main target of most vaccine efforts, were robust and correlated with the magnitude of the anti-SARS-CoV-2 IgG and IgA titers. The M, spike and N proteins each accounted for 11-27% of the total CD4+ response, with additional responses commonly targeting nsp3, nsp4, ORF3a and ORF8, among others. For CD8+ T cells, spike and M were recognized, with at least eight SARS-CoV-2 ORFs targeted. Importantly, we detected SARS-CoV-2−reactive CD4+ T cells in ∼40-60% of unexposed individuals, suggesting cross-reactive T cell recognition between circulating ‘common cold’ coronaviruses and SARS-CoV-2.

You sound like a chemo patient ranting that no fascist oncologist is going to tell them not to cuddle their grandchildren. Sometimes life is unfair.

I’m damned if I’m going to get this on purpose because it can be properly nasty, but if I can get confirmation that the nasty bug my DF had in March was COVID, or that I’ve had it myself then I’m jumping in the car to visit him immediately.

IDefinitelyHaveFriends

You need to be cautious. Epidemiologist on radio 4 at lunchtime today was saying he won’t be having one yet, even though those available through pharmacies etc. are currently 97.5 accurate, which is, he said, the best that can be expected.
His reason was that unless and until there is clear evidence of long-term (or any) immunity, a positive test may give some people a false sense of security.
He said that is extremely unhelpful at the moment, when we should all behaving as though we are at immediate risk.
If yours is positive, maybe rethink visiting your mum if she’s vulnerable?

Sorry, your father 😊

There is more information coming out about this, there does seem to be some immunity which is positive

science.sciencemag.org/content/368/6493/809

I'm a carer, I had an email from my agency telling me that clients are insisting 'we' are tested or they won't allow us on to their premises. Fair enough, but it feels like the start of something.

I've taken a photo of the appointment email and the card they gave me afterwards, just in case I have to 'prove' I've been tested.

Interesting that some of you never got chicken pox, maybe it was asymptotic?

I had chicken pox, mumps, measles, had a whole term off with whooping cough. Those were the days.

The idea of immunity passports disturbs the hell out of me. It's all very well to say it might not happen, but this is something we should be making sure doesn't happen. It will very easily spiral into a loss of civil liberties for a large proportion of people in the abscence of a vaccine.

The vast majority of people in most countries would be disadvantaged:

Kristian G. Andersen ‏*@KGAndersen* (Immunologist)

A lot of government reports from European countries on seroprevalence to SARS-CoV-2 this week and they all show the same - it's low.

Spain ~5%
Italy ~5%
Sweden ~5%
Denmark ~1%
Norway < 1%
......
References:

Spain: https://www.isciii.es/Noticias/Noticias/Paginas/Noticias/PrimerosDatosEstudioENECOVID19.aspx?fbclid=IwAR0askXAC4Is4rSY8EHR6S9TYAMZQWh6mAvuHNyUjNgiZP3TWe6Sj3pcwGo …
Italy: https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.05.11.20098442v1 …
Sweden: https://www.folkhalsomyndigheten.se/nyheter-och-press/nyhetsarkiv/2020/maj/forsta-resultaten-fran-pagaende-undersokning-av-antikroppar-for-covid-19-virus/ …
Denmark: https://www.ssi.dk/aktuelt/nyheder/2020/de-forste-forelobige-resultater-af-undersogelsen-for-covid-19-i-befolkningen-er-nu-klar …
Norway: https://www.nrk.no/norge/nye-fhi-beregninger-viruset-er-mindre-utbredtt_-men-mer-dodelig-1.15021397

Coronavirus parties would potentially be with booby prizes:

www.theguardian.com/world/2020/may/15/weird-hell-professor-advent-calendar-covid-19-symptoms-paul-garner

According to the latest research,
about one in 20 Covid patients experience long-term on-off symptoms. It’s unclear whether long-term means two months, or three or longer.

.