DD going back to school. How would you feel if.....

[HedgeHogFoxBadger]

Title would be too long but if you knew there was a child in the bubble class who's parent had broke the rules, ie since lockdown has seen her BF most of the time but they dont live together and since the rules have changed they are mixing with a slightly bigger group and not social distancing.
This parent has told me to see my BF who i havent seen since lockdown. Am i being unreasonable?

If you send your child back to school, you're accepting that they are going to be coming in to contact with children from multiple households.
Some of those children might have parents who are supermarket workers, nurses or builders who are mixing with 10s or 100s of people a day.

If you want to maintain a totally safe environment, keep your child at home.

I'm a childminder so my children have been mixing with children from 4 different families. Their parents are all key workers and some have been working on wards with covid.
I'm also going to be collecting children from two different schools from 1st June.

Would you complain about your child being in a class with my child?

I’d be very relaxed as the scientific evidence is that transmission between primary school children for this particular virus is minimal and totally different from the situation with flu/with adults. So I wouldn’t mingle with parents at drop-off/pick up but would be totally relaxed about the situation in school. I would be far more worried about the impact on their social/educational development and mental health for missing 6 months off school.

Every bubble will have a variety of children who have broken lockdown rules.

If you would like more evidence - schools have been open for the children of keyworkers throughout. These are the children most likely to be exposed and we have not heard a single story of a mass outbreak in a school.

I think there is a difference between avoidable and unavoidable here, too.

Key worker children and children of teachers / childminders are having more interactions but those interactions have a societal benefit.

Arguably meeting with friends, taking kids shopping (that could stay home) going into other people's houses, not social distancing have no real societal benefit.

If we can keep the number of interactions low and honest then test track and trace is easier, there are fewer opportunities for transmission and the r number will stay lower.

My children haven't left our neighbourhood since lockdown and haven't seen anyone aside from my mil who dropped something off and they spoke briefly at a social distance.

My children are returning to school. Before that happens we will be visiting the family, we will stand at the end of their drive and have a five minute chat. With one group we might go to a park and sit on blankets two metres apart. If I could sit 2m away from a stranger I can sit 2m away from family.

There is a lot of nuance here, and a lot of personal risk analysis going on.

if they have evidence of people not following the regulations about mixing households etc they won't be allowed into school.

Great. So the child who has no control over whether their family follows guidelines or not will be the one who misses out on their education? And people wonder why we have such attainment gaps between the “haves” and the “have nots”... 🙄

I think it's so hard. My children will be going to school. In my job I physically can't socially distance. So I'm honesty you might be stressing at this one person doing something but half the parents could be at risk each day

Would you be happy with my kids?

Yes!

Would I be happy with KW children? Yes

I don't think it's inevitable my DC will catch CV but I am prepared for them to do so.

We haven't actually broken the guidelines at all yet and I have no plans to start.

My DH goes to work so we do have slightly elevated risk as a family but his work is not a real high risk.

I accept that CV will probably come in lur house from him or from the school.

I will do what I can to protect the school bubble - in that we will continue to follow advice.

I accept that I have no control over the other children / staff in the bubble.

I still believe its a measured risk and he will be better at school.

This is the flaw. Schools can be as assiduous as possible but it relies on everyone in the “bubble” abiding by the restrictions.

How would you know that everyone in your “bubble” has been following the rules anyway? It’s impossible.

If just be grateful my kids were going back tbh.

I live on the same road as one of the school staff. She's had a lovely new short hair cut, very precise and perfect looking so not a home job. Had visitors in her garden sharing a pot of tea, ex-neighbours visiting. It's a joke. I'm glad mine aren't going back in a way. You only have to read some of the threads on here to see that a large amount of people have broken the rules and reworded them to fit what they want them to be.
And yes, I do spend a lot of time looking out of my windows. It's the only way I get to see the outside world. I've been stuck at home for 10 weeks shielding. Gazing outside makes me feel less isolated from the world and as I live on a quiet road seeing the comings and goings of neighbours is my only way of seeing other people. And I'm naturally nosey

I think we've all got quite bad at estimating risk. Around ten children a year die from chicken pox, hundreds get it so badly they need hospital treatment and a majority are scarred by it. The risk of chicken pox to those over 65 who haven't had it is really high (80% of deaths are in adults). It would kill a high number of adults if they weren't immune due to having it as a child. It is not a mild childhood illness.

I know covid is different, I know teachers are worried about how at risk they are from it. But we have to acknowledge that for the vast majority it is a mild illness and even unnoticeable in some. If people aren't in a highly vulnerable group then the risks to them are really low.

We should try and prevent it spreading to protect our elders and vulnerable, but we have to find a balance to the risks.

If you are that anxious about it you shouldn’t send your child back. We cannot control what everyone in our bubble does and part of this is accepting that. I am actually baffled that parents have been contacting schools about the bubbles they are put in. Don’t you think these poor teachers have enough on their plates?

Send your child in and accept the risk or keep them at home. Simple.

This is the flaw. Schools can be as assiduous as possible but it relies on everyone in the “bubble” abiding by the restrictions.

No it isn’t. The risk isn’t zero in the bubble all it does is reduce the number of interactions and therefore the potential spread is contained if a child gets it.

I don’t understand why people across mumsnet are incapable of understanding that every contact you have increased the risk so the fewer you have decreases it. However it isn’t a case of ‘dangerous’ or ‘100% safe’ 🤦🏻‍♀️

I think you need to let it go. I think the risk is far more related to the local prevalence at the time in your area. What this kids mum did a month ago isn't that big a deal. Other kids mums may be exposed far more at work etc

Agree with @Playdonut some of the kids in DS class have let slip that they’ve broken the rules during online lessons. There are also sone that I know have broken the rules that haven’t said anything. At the very least 1/3 of the class has broken the rules but I’d imagine there are a few more that we don’t know about.

If your child is going back to school in June, then that's your "family bubble" popped effectively, as (with all the will in the world) teachers will not be able to stop groups of children from interacting in a physical way, so I really wouldn't worry about one child who's family isn't following the rules, I'd imagine out of your bubble of 15, probably at least half the kids families have broken the rules by now. Your child is going to be coming into contact with the kids in their bubble, plus siblings, kids of key workers, kids who's parents will no doubt be returning to work in June, and obviously the poor teachers who are going to be praying everyday they don't end up ill. By the end of that first week, they will have all had direct or indirect contact with every other pupil in the school and their families. If you're that worried about keeping your family bubble intact, keep your child home.

I don’t understand why people across mumsnet are incapable of understanding that every contact you have increased the risk so the fewer you have decreases it. However it isn’t a case of ‘dangerous’ or ‘100% safe’ 🤦🏻‍♀

Yes people really love to see risk as black and white. What does "safe" and "dangerous" mean? With covid people use safe to mean zero chance of death. With driving for instance people mean low chance of death when they safe.

Teateaandmoretea

“I don’t understand why people across mumsnet are incapable of understanding that every contact you have increased the risk so the fewer you have decreases it. However it isn’t a case of ‘dangerous’ or ‘100% safe’ 🤦🏻‍♀️“

Completely understand that: being in a bubble with people going about their daily necessary business carries risk that most people will accept. I can’t, unfortunately, with 3 vulnerable family members.
Very different proposition if one of those people is also socially mixing with countless people and wilfully ignoring restrictions.

@chilli

The wilfulness of ignoring restrictions isn't the key thing. Lots of rule following folk who are key workers etc have far more risk of exposure than a sahm who goes round to see another sahm and her WFH bf. The sahm is more irritating though.

I think you need to accept the risks or else keep your child off school. Many children will have parents who are key workers and be in a bubble with those who have been in complete isolation. Then you will have some children whose parents flouted the law. The likelihood of any child who is returning to school avoiding anyone who has been exposed to some extent is probably too low to count.

So chilli you keep your child at home. You can’t expect the school to police what other families are doing.

The school cannot police this.

Our school sent a communication saying that groups of TEN had been spotted out and about, all kids from different households with zero social distancing. But what can they actually do? Mine are not in R,1 or 6 but if they were, I wouldn’t send them back. My friend has a Y6 who isn’t going back.

I think the bubbles idea is totally pointless when you have multiple children. For example if you have a nursery aged child who will be going back and mixing with the children in their bubble and you also have a reception child who will be going back and mixing with the children in their bubble. Both children will then be coming home to mix with say their older siblings and parents who will then be going out to work to mix with their respective offices. So these little bubbles now mean the household is mixing with 60+ people on a regular basis and like you say, no idea how many people each of these individuals are mixing with. Whats the point???