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Original poster

WTAF... Did I just hear that??!!!

150 replies

Whattodowhattodooo · 19/05/2020 17:45

Did George Eustice and Prof Dame Angela McLean admit to murder???

They just said that elderly WERE discharged to care homes whilst being asymptomatic in the "early days" Whilst we knew it was happening this is the first I've actually heard them admit to it.... They were in fucking hospital. Fucking test them you stupid fucking bastards 🤬🤬🤬🤬

OP posts:
lilgreen · 19/05/2020 18:57

Shocking as they knew then that the elderly were likely to be at greater risk. I thought those 2 tonight were shocking, especially Dame whoever, she acted as though she’d been pulled of the street to do a press conference.

Hearhoovesthinkzebras · 19/05/2020 18:57

If they were asymptomatic then surely they were not showing signs, so therefore they wouldn’t have known to test them. In the early days there were not enough tests for everyone just in case. If they didn’t show symptoms why would they test?

Before you go into hospital, or before you are transferred, you have Saab's done for MRSA - a multi antibiotic resistant infection. We know to do that because it can be fatal in certain cases and can be spread between patients so we test everyone for it. Of course they should have understood infection risks with Covid.

If tests weren't available then strict barrier nursing or isolation accommodation should have been available - either within care homes or separate parts of the hospitals.

Yester · 19/05/2020 18:59

Huge incompetence by the government. May if our PM had bothered to attend the COBRA meetings or listen to the advice from China/italy/Korea rather follow do herd immunity bullshit many people wouldn't have died.

@NoHardSell you sound like a pleasant person. I hope in rl you don't say such dick like things.

CoolCarrie · 19/05/2020 19:02

I bet the empty phase “ Lessons will be learnt” will surface when the dust has settled , just as it always does, the buck will be passed and the blame will be placed on minor ministers or civil servants, and nothing really will change.

bellinisurge · 19/05/2020 19:04

Their shitness is starting to be exposed. There is doing your best and making mistakes along the way and there is shit.

frumpety · 19/05/2020 19:05

@TisTheSeasonToBe That's really lovely to hear Smile

Clemmieandareallybigbunfight · 19/05/2020 19:08

I was working in this area, still am. Hospitals were told to discharge patients by any means. In the first few weeks most hospitals couldn't run their own tests because the kit wasn't available. The tests were rationed closely. Staff were told repeatedly they didn't need PPE except with symptomatic patients.

We now know just how widely Covid presents and how it spreads. We now have all staff in PPE and tests for anybody we fancy doing tbh. We didn't have that two months ago.

Covid is in the care homes because of discharges but also because of community spread. It wasnt murder but lessons are being learnt. It's nobody's fault the ops grandmother is dead. That's the hard truth.

Original poster
Whattodowhattodooo · 19/05/2020 19:09

@MilkTrayLimeBarrel

I have already stated that I may possibly have used the wrong words.

I'm just heartbroken.

OP posts:
TheoriginalLEM · 19/05/2020 19:10

My mum was meant to be going into a care home from hospital but it took them too long to sort it out, zero communication, then she got Norovirus so another two weeks in hospital. This was at the beginning of coronavirus, February. I regularly thank the good Lord that I threw my toys out of the cot and insisted on discharge.

RoisinD · 19/05/2020 19:10

Well said 3cats. Some of the responses to OP are nasty. No need for such replies. This is MN where you would hope that people would be supportive. No compassion or empathy for someone who is looking for answers and struggling to come to terms with the death of her grandmother. Sympathies to OP.

ITonyah · 19/05/2020 19:11

Covid is in the care homes because of discharges but also because of community spread. It wasnt murder but lessons are being learnt. It's nobody's fault the ops grandmother is dead. That's the hard truth

I wish you could uptick posts on Mumsnet.

Hearhoovesthinkzebras · 19/05/2020 19:14

It's nobody's fault the ops grandmother is dead. That's the hard truth

Sorry, but they should have foreseen this. They could have looked at other countries to see the impact it was having in care homes. Even if they couldn't test they could have quarantined to stop it running through homes.

olivehater · 19/05/2020 19:18

If we didn’t have the lab capacity to test everyone we wanted to there isn’t much anyone could have done about it surely?

Original poster
Whattodowhattodooo · 19/05/2020 19:19

@lilgreen

I agree. She was shockingly awful.

Thankyou to all those for kind words and understanding my anger, and some talking me down.

To those who have laughed, ridiculed, told me to "get over it", I truly hope that none of you have to watch one of your closest loved ones taking their dying breath over facetime. I truly do.

OP posts:
lilgreen · 19/05/2020 19:20
Flowers
CoolCarrie · 19/05/2020 19:21

Ffs Bloody hell, it’s obvious that elderly and disabled people ARE VULNERABLE TO ANY INFECTION, whether it’s the flu, measles or whatever precisely because they are elderly and disabled, as so vulnerable as pp said it’s not rocket science, it’s common sense,and it’s a scandal .

Hearhoovesthinkzebras · 19/05/2020 19:21

Yes there is - you quarantine everyone for fourteen days. We didn't test those in the community but we did say they had to isolate for fourteen days regardless of testing.

They didn't need tests to enjoy infection control methods.

KoppaCamelian · 19/05/2020 19:21

Quarantined them where?

Do people have any idea of the bed crisis in the NHS pre covid. Scrabbling around for a free bed and taking 10 discharges in a day as a win.

There was huge huge HUGE problems with elderly people spending countless days and nights in hospital beds they didn’t need to be in because the social care just was not there. NOT the NHSs fault. Social care and the care homes see the NHS as a hotel for medically fit elderly people they don’t want.

Covid rolls round and the barriers which were in place preventing us from discharging were removed. Social care and the care homes were passed the buck. We have never had so much capacity.

Yes old people were discharged without testing. They did not have symptoms, the huge push was “cough/temp” and we moved them out to protect them and free up beds.

Nobody murdered anyone ffs

Mintychoc1 · 19/05/2020 19:21

It’s easy to look back with the benefit of hindsight and say that things were done wrong. I think people are forgetting how quickly and unexpectedly this took hold. I’m a GP and I remember towards the end of March we had a patient who returned from Italy and rang 111 with symptoms of coronavirus. A special testing team was sent to her house to do the test. That’s how restricted and unusual tests were. Indiscriminate testing of asymptomatic patients in hospital just wasn’t possible.
I am confused, however, as to why care home staff weren’t given PPE by their owners (many private). We weren’t given PPE at the start so we bought it ourselves, using contacts at schools, garages, anywhere that people used protective gear. Care home owners could have done that.
I think if there’s blame, it should be on the people in charge of care homes. But sadly our ageing population means that care homes are built at an alarming rate, by businessmen who often care about money and nothing else. The seem to run on a shoestring from what I can see.

Hearhoovesthinkzebras · 19/05/2020 19:22

Not enjoy but employ

CoolCarrie · 19/05/2020 19:22

I am sorry What for your loss.

Laniakea · 19/05/2020 19:23

there was lab capacity (& it was offered), PHE made a control-freakery decision not to avail it.

LangClegsInSpace · 19/05/2020 19:25

Why would they test them if they were asymptomatic.

To find out if they had the virus and could be infectious to others.

That would be a complete waste of precious tests.

Clearly not.

It’s not murder.

Yet over 10,000 care home residents have died.

It’s absolutely right that old people who weren’t showing symptoms should be sent back to care homes, in order to free up beds.

Beds that, for the most part, appear to have remained empty every since.

It was wrong to hollow out the NHS and refocus it solely on covid patients who need intensive care. It was wrong to do anything to risk introducing the virus to a shared residential setting if it could be avoided.

What has been allowed to happen in care homes is absolutely wrong.

Hearhoovesthinkzebras · 19/05/2020 19:26

Quarantined them where?

In hospital wards kept empty by cancelling all other procedures (you know, in the not overwhelmed NHS) or in specific places like the Nightingale hospitals or, worse case, within the nursing homes. Kept in their room, care staff barrier nursing them until risk of infection has passed.

stillfeelingmad · 19/05/2020 19:34

What's happened is terrible and yes things should have been done differently but we didn't have the lab capacity to test asymptotic people.

Bandying about words like 'murder' make you seem hysterical and like you don't really understand what murder is or what's going on.

I'm sorry you've been personally affected but there are people in hospitals and care homes working hard and doing their best. Choose you words.