WTAF... Did I just hear that??!!!

[Whattodowhattodooo]

Did George Eustice and Prof Dame Angela McLean admit to murder???

They just said that elderly WERE discharged to care homes whilst being asymptomatic in the "early days" Whilst we knew it was happening this is the first I've actually heard them admit to it.... They were in fucking hospital. Fucking test them you stupid fucking bastards 🤬🤬🤬🤬

so the care homes did not have the capacity either.
nor the staff

Isolating is different to barrier nursing, they were isolated in their rooms in lots of instances but carers going from room to room runs the risk of infection spreading which is where barrier nursing is more effective and some care homes have the knowledge and skills to implement this effectively. It was widely used in the past when diseases were less controlled. Older nurses/carers would have experience of this but the younger generation of nurses and carers wouldn't have any experience.

We maybe need to ask if barrier nursing was implemented or if care homes were trained to do this effectively and if not, why not?

I don't think the OP is being hysterical at all. We are the 6th largest economy globally and yet we have the 2nd highest amount of deaths in the entire world.

The fact that the government ordered hospitals and doctors to discharge elderly patients to care homes without testing them, is akin to murder on a mass scale. Only we call it the much nicer and polite term of 'corporate manslaughter or gross neglect.'

I suspect it will never get that far and will simply be referred to as an 'error in judgement.'

An error, which according to the ONS additional deaths statistics, has seen 18,000 elderly patients die in care homes during the pandemic, of which 8000 have been reported by the government. That leaves 10,000 deaths which have yet to be explained.

Keir Starmer asked Boris Johnson about this at PMQs and Boris was full of waffle and bluster but could not give Starmer a straight answer.

It's nothing short of a disgrace and is appalling.

There’s nothing you can Do about it now - the times last so you have to just get over it! They can’t go back To march and test people Ffs

What??!!! I'd be leaving no stone unturned in trying to find a way to hold people accountable before I faced having to accept it.

This is exactly why people are worried about schools opening - people don't trust that the government are acting in the best interests of the vulnerable.

Shame so many old folk are in care homes.

This is quite an interesting article from 2019 about the care home sector. It does beg the question what is more important the clients/staff or bottom line profit.

www.theguardian.com/society/2019/sep/19/84-of-care-home-beds-in-england-owned-by-private-firms

I don't know why this surprises you today, OP. We knew this ages ago. It's disgusting and another part of the gigantic cock up of the government's policies. And to those who think this is just hindsight, it seemed obvious to me in early March that care homes were vulnerable and I have no experience in the sector. Not discharging patients who may have a massively transmissible disease into a vulnerable population seems like common sense to me. It's like putting a smoking match back into the match box. Make sure it's out first.

I'm sorry for your loss, OP.

I'm not surprised you're angry. The government have made some appalling decisions.

Good point @walker1891 , isolate and barrier nurse would have been the best idea. I know a couple of settings with very mobile dementia residents where I think isolating residents would have been very challenging, which in itself would have made the barrier nursing difficult to achieve.

@desdemonaDryEyes - yes - whatever happened to families looking after their elderly relatives. This would have avoided or at least reduced the whole sorry scenario.

I read this earlier, in the Guardian, about PHE's testing policy around that time. Their refusal to expand capacity by using universities/private labs etc in March - as we have done now & so we've reached the 100k tests mark - meant that they were critically limited on testing & the effects have been terrible

"“From it followed the decision on 12 March to cease testing in the community and retreat to testing principally within hospitals. Amongst other consequences, it meant that residents in care homes – even those displaying Covid-19 symptoms – and care home workers could not be tested at a time when the spread of the virus was at its most rampant.”

www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/may/19/failure-to-explain-uks-halt-to-mass-covid-19-testing-in-march-unacceptable

They admitted this evening that the testing policy was purely one made due to lack of capacity. The care home epidemic was not inevitable.

It was always obvious that if the infection got into care homes it would spread like wildfire.

This isn't something unique to this virus. It's very very basic infection control to do everything you can to prevent bugs getting into care homes or any other communal residential setting because it's so incredibly difficult to prevent transmission once they get in.

If the government were 'following the scientific advice' on this then their scientific advisers are spectacularly incompetent - at least I hope that is the explanation because the other things I am thinking are far worse.

And even if the danger of allowing this virus to get into care homes was not bleeding fucking obvious we could just have looked at what was happening in other countries.

7 March major outbreak in a care home in Washington, US.

17 March, news broke of the crisis in Spain's care homes.

Even earlier, we could have got a clue from the widespread infection on the Diamond Princess - another shared residential setting. Or the prisons in Iran.

This is not rocket surgery!

If there aren't enough tests then you isolate patients for 14 days before they go to the care home so you are as sure as you can be that you are not introducing the virus.

In London The Nightingale stood empty while hundreds of symptomatic elderly people were discharged back to care homes causing rampant outbreaks. There was literally no need for it. I was on a call with senior NHS officers last week who are still pressuring to discharge people to care homes and other home care providers care before test results are back..its ok its in the guidance.

Its a national scandal.

So OP loses grandparent...
To those commenting about hysteria, leaving laughing and grinning emojies... you are arseholes! I bet you wouldn't have the guts to make such comments in person, would you? Guttless keyboard warriors the lot of you!
@KaptenKrusty WTF is your problem? Bit of a nasty arsehole are you? Did leaving your comments make you feel good?

"asymptomatic patients were not tested in the early days before being discharged". Why the fuck not

nobody was tested in the early days if asymptomatic.
elderly or not.

care homes need to take some responsibility

they absolutely do. Not one that I spoke to raised any concerns about us discharging patients, even patients who had been positive and were now well. They informed us they could isolate them.

My anger is a private care homes who are paid large amounts of money and did not even try to buy ppe or isolate as best as possible in a home. Bleated that the government hadn't provided it to them instead.

Care homes would like you to yell and scream at the government but I guarantee they wont be offering a refund of their fees for the care service that they haven't provided.

Sorry for your loss OP, my Nan died in a care home 10 years ago, Without me there to hold her hand, because of snow a great big massive dumping of the stuff. I couldn’t manage looking after her by myself any longer, but I visited all the time. Not being there and envisioning her being alone haunted me for a long time, but I know the care staff were there doing their best. I’ve been saying to friends and family during this, that this will be how so many people will be feeling. It’s horrible.
When you can get some grief counselling It will help.
I can’t comment on the news or the virus I’ve had to switch off from it for my sanity, I keep it small, keeping myself and my family safe is all I can do, the bigger picture is too overwhelming.

@frumpety

you're right barrier nursing dementia patients is incredibly hard.
A local care home barriered in small groups of approx. 4 patients to reduce this. So same 4 isolated close together - almost like a family. Less isolating for patients and less distressing in dementia. Tried to keep the same staff with the same residents.

In a challenging circumstance this home did it incredibly well.

The elderly and disabled have been overlooked in the rush to free up beds and it’s terrible that , as usual the vulnerable have suffered, and probably will continue to suffer, due to incompetence and hubris of this government.

If they were asymptomatic then surely they were not showing signs, so therefore they wouldn’t have known to test them. In the early days there were not enough tests for everyone just in case. If they didn’t show symptoms why would they test?

Also care homes have owners who should have been taking actions themselves including purchasing ppe. They are just as culpable as the Government in this

And I don’t blame you OP for being soo angry, I would be as well.

It’s an utter disgrace that we have lost so many people in care home settings but what I find equally chilling is the number of people who simply accept the government line that’s this wasn’t their fault. It was. It is. We should all be raging about their incompetence but somehow we are allowing ourselves to be blind-sided by utter bollocks like the ‘protective ring’
Massive condolences to anyone who has lost a loved one unnecessarily at the hands of Demonic Cummings and his puppets. I can’t imagine how sad and angry you must be.

It’s infuriating.

Matt Ridley at minute16.30 talks about the virus, how it is more likely a nosocomial disease and the releasing of Covid-19 patients back to the care homes is devastating.

Must watch

Oh just go away will you! Jesus fucking christ!!