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Why are people not wearing masks?

778 replies

FergusComeLately · 16/05/2020 17:51

I’m queuing inside my local supermarket, I’ve see one other person wearing a mask.

Does it not make sense to just TRY to protect other people and try and keep infection rates down. Even a scarf wound round your face?!

I think they should be compulsory when you are inside. Is it the PPE shortage which is preventing Boris from making it so?

Talk to me about masks!

OP posts:
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NoHardSell · 19/05/2020 06:23

SE Asian countries do have a culture of mask wearing all the time (smog, innit), hence why they are pushing it as an easy 'cure'. It also distracts from China's role in all this - here, have some masks. Mask diplomacy. So we could choose to be like them and wear one all the time. If it's rude to pass on asymptomatic corona, it's surely equally rude to pass on asymptomatic flu (far higher rates of asymptomatic transmission).

Or you could nust admit -it's your corona comfort blanket. Snuggle up and virtue signal to your heart's content.

CeeceeBloomingdale · 19/05/2020 06:23

Because they aren't mandatory. They make it more difficult to breathe. I wear glasses which instantly steam up and the glasses make the mask a poor fit. I have a small head and masks don't fit anyway. And mainly because I don't want to.

merrymouse · 19/05/2020 07:44

The seatbelt analogy doesn't really work, because the government didn't spend months saying that seatbelts had no measurable benefit just before making them mandatory.

wildcherries · 19/05/2020 07:55

MarginalGain

Masks are a significant impingement on human interaction, I won't wear one willingly. Any business that requires them will just lose my business.

Agree with this. Appreciate you clearing up your previous post. Thought you were serious.

LaylaPSC83 · 19/05/2020 08:40

Dinosauratemydaffodils

Oh my god, how horrible! I've been raped 3 times and I thought it was my own fault until I spoke with a counsellor from rape crisis. Have you been to them?

acatcalledjohn · 19/05/2020 08:45

^I went to Sainsburys today and was the only one in there wearing a mask.
It felt a little strange, being an odd one out but that's nothing new
I wore it for the shop workers acknowledging that they're working through difficult times and to reduce the possible viral load in the store.^

So even the shop workers weren't wearing masks? Those people much more likely to have the virus because their exposure is so much higher?

Don't get me wrong, I bought myself a mask just on the off chance they make it mandatory in shops. But until they do I will not wear it and instead keep away from other people.

acatcalledjohn · 19/05/2020 08:50

The last time I tried, I ended up with a massive scratch on my face from trying to yank it straight back off. The thought of them becoming mandatory played a part in the events which almost led to me getting sectioned two weeks ago.

Thanks

Face masks shouldn't be mandatory: the 2m distance should.

canigooutyet · 19/05/2020 09:06

Acatcalledjohn Until a week or so again, it was normal to see shop workers without a mask. Took weeks to do the perspex screens - which apparently perspex isn't effective when it comes to coronavirus.

Oh and some of the scientists that seem to know what they are chatting about have also mentioned that the thing about it living on surfaces hasn't actually been proven outside of clinical testing or labs.

AllieCat22 · 19/05/2020 09:15

Because I love fresh air, and to me, wearing one makes me feel like I’m being muzzled like a dangerous dog.

AllieCat22 · 19/05/2020 09:17

Especially for something that has not been scientifically proven as something that works.

MarginalGain · 19/05/2020 09:18

@wildcherries I guess my point was too subtle! I'm delighted that some were horrified at the prospect.

It's really just a matter of proportionality. Probably we'll see another pandemic in my lifetime; if it's something having a mortality rate like SARS or MERS I'd be willing to accept heavier interventions.

The benefits of wearing masks to protect the public against covid19 are completely insufficient to warrant this kind of dramatic cultural degradation.

rhubarbfizzy · 19/05/2020 09:22

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/apr/24/face-masks-mandatory-spread-coronavirus-government

It seems like UK sticks out like a sore thumb - most virus is shed and infection happens when the carrier seems fine, once they have bad symptoms they are generally bed-ridden anyway so are not out-and-about spreading it.

Get a mask on !

www.hse.gov.uk/respiratory-protective-equipment/docs/stay-healthy-notes.pdf

PinkyAndTheBrian · 19/05/2020 10:17

Oh and some of the scientists that seem to know what they are chatting about have also mentioned that the thing about it living on surfaces hasn't actually been proven outside of clinical testing or labs.

That’s not news, that’s the nature of a novel virus. Until there is definitive evidence it’s wise to assume that clinical results apply outside as well, until proven either way.

It has since been found that the virus doesn’t survive long in direct sunlight. As time goes by there’ll be more research that informs protocol.
Until recently they were working blind with a virus that appeared to be killing 1-3% of people infected, hospitalised 20% because their symptoms were so severe, badly affected many more.
With time they now know that the death rate is below 1%, but there are still otherwise healthy people younger than 50 being treated in ICU, and there still isn’t enough research to adequately explain what’s going on to cause some to have it so severely (there is research going on about cytokine storms). There is still the fact that some people (with no underlying issues) are having debilitating symptoms for over 4 weeks - there are best guesses about why this is, but as yet no facts.
There are people left with lung damage - C19 is particularly vicious on some people’s lungs - but it’s too early to see for sure if this will remain as a chronic condition, can be treated effectively or will recover in time.
There are emerging cases of Kawasaki in children.
It’s too early to confidently say all is well, crack on.

There is anecdotal evidence and emerging research that shows that masks are effective alongside other measures. Ongoing research will tell us more. Like other guidelines that have been made on best information at the time, I suspect that mask wearing will become mandatory at some point, unless voluntary take up happens.

The mini skirt analogy is ridiculous and has no equivalence at all in this scenario.
Comparisons to other global crises are pointless - this is a new virus, ignoring it would be more economically damaging, and be a massive problem for public health long term.

The insinuation that taking the situation seriously makes us hysterical, that the sky is falling and we’re all going to die is frankly pathetic and insulting.

There are two routes we can use, as people at home watching it all unfold.
New virus, emerging information on the course it takes, how it’s treated, how it will affect people.
1.We can either throw caution in the wind and carry on with our lives as normal until there are solid facts.
Or 2. we use measures to slow down infection rates whilst research into the disease, treatments, and preventions is carried out.

Both have ramifications on public health and the economy. I suspect option 1 would be far worse overall.
I would choose option 2 and part of that for me is using a mask when I go into a shop (safely of course, there are information videos all over how to use them properly), because the research and evidence there is points to them being helpful.

No one is being told to never breathe fresh air again. The hyperbole in this thread is astounding.

Xenia · 19/05/2020 10:20

Because they don't work, aren't needed and are not therefore required by law. If the state required them by law then people would successfully challenge that law based on the science. They also do more harm than good (other than in hospitals)

rhubarbfizzy · 19/05/2020 10:26

Wow, great post @Pink !

This is mumsnet at its natural best and living its best life :) as an anonymous online forum for mums. Recently it seems to turn into a sort of political propaganda machine, with not just uk based posters doing this ...

rhubarbfizzy · 19/05/2020 10:28

@xen actually for this novel respiratory-borne illness they do work. I don’t know any country where they are mandatory but in those countries which dealt brilliantly with this - japan, sth korea, hk, taiwan, vietnam - there is over 95% use

rhubarbfizzy · 19/05/2020 10:36

Here is some science : over 100 prominent healthcare experts including 2 Nobel prize winners

masks4all.co/letter-over-100-prominent-health-experts-call-for-cloth-mask-requirements/

bigbluebus · 19/05/2020 10:55

In my rare experiences of going to shops/supermarkets and a garden centre over the last few weeks, my experience has been that the mask wearers seem to think that social distancing does not apply to them and they routinely get closer to other people. So if the masks help IN ADDITION to other measures then some people have clearly missed the point.

Lweji · 19/05/2020 10:56

Yes, very good post Pinky.

I'll just add a few things.

I'm a reluctant mask user. It took me a while to be convinced by the research and that it can be spread by aerosols.

In addition to the lungs being affected, it seems that quite a substancial component of the disease are blood clots. This seems to be responsible for unexpected deaths in younger people.
The death rates will be going down because more is being known about the disease process. People get very low blood oxygen, which is why it's important to monitor people with the infection and be capable of a quick response by hospitals and emergency services.

Gloves are still useless except if you can't wash hands or disinfect them somehow.

Survival in surfaces is an issue.
I haven't worried much about shopping, for example. It's not likely that someone has recently sneezed on a milk bottle.
But lift buttons could be contaminated by dirty fingers.

If you decide to follow government rules to the letter, keep in mind that they are at least as much derived from politics as well as science. In some countries more by politics.
The UK will have trouble making masks recommended, even, because there aren't enough yet, it seems.
And yes, if masks become mandatory, they won't be medical grade. It's likely to be any sort of mask.

The fact is that a small number of people won't be able to wear masks for different reasons.
A nationwide control measure won't be put on hold because of those people. Sorry. There will be exemptions, I'm sure, but if the economy needs masks to recover without leading to a new surge of infections, masks it will be.

NoHardSell · 19/05/2020 11:21

No that was not a good post by pinky

There are not 'two options' - do nothing or do everything anyone anywhere thinks might work

That's not two options is it?

We can, and have, follow a range of measures to attempt to reduce transmission. Mask wearing is not proven to be effective therefore it is not mandatory. Neither is it forbidden.

Lweji · 19/05/2020 11:27

Mask wearing is not proven to be effective!

Two questions.
What would it take to prove to you that it's effective?
Wouldn't you prefer a government that acted on the side of caution than having their hands forced due to bad results?

We'll see how this reopening/not reopening "strategy" works out.

We can't live distancing for another year or more. People need to get on with their lives.

Meanwhile, the government is doing nothing for people to get community PPE.

PinkyAndTheBrian · 19/05/2020 11:42

The two options part was based on the opinions I’ve seen in MN.

People are divided between Do Everything and Do Nothing.

Many posters strongly believe that lockdown is pointless, we should stop.
Many posters believe the virus is only dangerous to the elderly.

I can’t wait for things to get back to some semblance of normal. I fully expect there to be some unpalatable measures in order to do so. Masks alongside social distancing and good hygiene are amongst these things, just as lockdown was essential to get some control of the situation once it was allowed to get out of hand.

canigooutyet · 19/05/2020 11:51

So how comes there is this issue with where the material is worn?

It's getting worn for protection right?

So shouldn't the question have been more about how the skirt would help? Scientific stuff. Does it have to fit in a certain place? You know like the mask questions.

Instead, err how is some none medical material comparable to some other none medical material. But seemed fine to compare to something that is completely optional, travelling in a car. Whereas the mask some are wanting it compulsory for all.

So why in the interests of protecting the greater good can a mask be enforced but the mini skirt couldn't?

Of course, assuming the same inconclusive info was shared around like the mask.

Anyway. I'm off out for a walk even though I am shielding. I know imagine that I can still risk assess my own life without sitting around waiting for my release. And omg I can legally go outside.

PinkyAndTheBrian · 19/05/2020 11:53

Mini skirts don’t prevent droplets that come out of the mouth that spread c19.

You seriously still going on about it? Hmm

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