I'm finding the reaction to covid utterly bizarre

[TheDailyCarbuncle]

If anyone had told me that healthy, fit people would willingly put their livelihoods at risk and deny their children an education for months on end, that they would send the country into recession putting healthcare, education and public services at risk for years and years to come to avoid getting a disease that had a very very small chance of killing them I wouldn't have believed it. If you'd said people would be afraid to talk to their healthy siblings I wouldn't have believed it.

I had measles in the 1980s as small child - the vaccination programme where I lived was slow to get off the ground - and it nearly killed me. In 1980 2.6 million people worldwide died of measles, a very large proportion of them children. No one ever considered a lockdown, it was never even suggested.

I think all the analysis of this situation in the coming years won't be about the pandemic, but about the contagion of fear that made people so terrified of something that wasn't a real threat to them that they created huge, long-lasting, in some cases devastating problems for themselves, problems that were nothing to do with their virus and everything to do with their reaction to the virus.

"My just 18 year old has missed out on life events that just should not have been missed and can never be replaced."

Diddums. Bloody hell hes not down a mine or in the trenches. He's had to stay at home for a couple of months. I agree with pp, shocking levels of 'toys out of pram' all around and pitiful levels of resilience.

@FreddieFlintstone I cant help but think that us having the second highest death toll on the planet might have something to do with it.

plus a govt who recently went from "trust the science" to "follow good old british common sense" and I can see why parents are requiring a little more solid than to take people at their word.

I cant imagine a group we need to protect more than our little children. our year six kids can understand a little more, they would keep apart, but four year old kids all shoved together at a time when we know so little about the virus and its offshoot, holy cow, no!

but if our politicians say its safe, great, show us all why and maybe we can relax a little.

dont just force a policy on us, and then not show why

I think what I find bizarre is how ready people are to toss the health, longevity & prosperity of the last 60 years on the bonfire. I keep hearing ‘We used to live with polio, TB, etc and we will just have to toughen up like the good old days’
No!!! That’s not good enough. There is nothing good or virtuous in shortened lifespans & chronic ill health. And by the way, populations with chronic ill health tend to be economically fucked. The economy & public health are the same side of the coin - not on opposite sides.
We need to think smarter, be innovative, creative & resilient. If this virus shapes up the way more virologists & immunologists expect, then we’re looking at long term health impacts. I refuse to lie down & accept that for my kids. You think you’re the free-thinker speaking out against the lockdown? Think again, herd.

Totally agree with OP the first sensible discussion I've read on mumsnet re coronavirus!!!

How many documented cases of people reinfected with Covid19 do we need before people stop blabbering on about herd immunity?

@Hunnybears

The plan is to come out of lockdown gradually in a way that manages the risk of spreading Covid appropriately.

We are learning more about the virus all the time. The measures in place will minimise transmission while allowing some / many elements of normal life to continue. Some will change forever. New ways of working and interacting will be found - and this will be good for managing Covid, but importantly, avoidance of other viral pandemics that are always predicted, given the way we live now, and the nature of population growth.

My job (university teaching role) will never be done the same way again. And actually, that will be a good thing, in itself, allowing us to be creative with our approaches, while being complicated in the short-term.

We need to move gradually so we can test out what happens as society opens up - our Government have made it clear we may need to move back some steps if the rate of transmission increases again.

How many documented cases of people reinfected with Covid19 do we need before people stop blabbering on about herd immunity?

Agree entirely.

@Hunnybears

Right, so ‘there may never be a vaccine’. But equally, there might be... So why not just sit tight and wait for the next few months to unfold until we have the results of some of these promising vaccine trials? But nooo, people can’t be bothered for that../

@TheMagiciansMewTwo my greatest fear from all this is that the people twig we might just be making it up now as we go along.

imagine photos of young children who were back in school but now on ventilators due to covid or Kawasaki disease.

the country will be up in arms with rage and our govt potentially risked it all over nothing.

Obviously some of you are too clever (taps nose) and have figured out the governments ulterior motive...which is what, again?

I’m curious about this too. @EarringsandLipstick also had a sensible post earlier which was completely ignored.

It’s impossible to properly risk assess when otherwise healthy people are also being struck down. Don’t sneer at people are are frightened about a novel illness.

Parents exert so much control in this country
This is such a bizarre statement. What do you mean? If there were no risk to sending your kids back to school then why have they said parents who choose not to will not be ‘penalised’? I was going to send dc back to School, until we had a letter from the head that was virtually begging for them not to return. I’m guessing they know more about safety and more importantly what school will Actually look like for 5 yr olds. At the moment it’s looking like a return to Victorian schooling.

I'm with you. The virus isn't going away so why on earth are people demanding we stay in doors until it does? People seem blind to the consequences of lockdown.

Sorry I haven’t read through the thread. I have given my view on there countless times. Many public experts say best strategy for health, economy and society is not natural herd immunity but building a comprehensive testing, tracing and isolating program buying time for therapeutics or vaccine to be developed, though latter far from guaranteed. The countries who have done this have the lowest cases and deaths.

Well argued article by Professor of Global Health, Professor Devi Sridhar. She believes the best strategy ahead that will protect public health, society and the economy is a comprehensive programme of of testing, contact tracing and isolating. The concern is the govt is being too slow in setting this up and lifting some lockdown measures too early before the R number is low enough and before the testing, contact tracing and isolation programme is in place. . She wrote on twitter today:

“If people stay home, daily new cases will drop & becomes feasible to suppress virus with test, trace, isolate, support. Stay in lockdown longer to ensure a package of public health measures can be implemented, virus can be contained & economic & social activity can then resume.”
amp.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/may/12/tories-lockdown-social-distancing-testing-second-wave-coronavirus?__twitter_impression=true

The thing I find the strangest with this pandemic is how there's a huge set of double standards between different occupations and people's reactions to them being 'at risk'.

• Retail workers? People don't tend to care that much. Plenty of threads on here slagging delivery drivers and shop workers off for making mistakes while trying to do their jobs.
• NHS staff? People saying how they 'signed up for it' and complaining at them for taking 5 minutes out of their shift to make a tik tok video as a laugh. Probably the only laugh they've had all day, too.
• Delivery drivers? A few weeks ago people were outraged that they were being made to work in shit conditions (shit conditions that have been well publicised and known about for years, might I add). But now lockdown is dragging on, it's 'good' to keep ordering stuff to keep them in a job. Weird how the tune changed, there.
• Teachers? Absolutely not! How dare we expect them to work in conditions where they are surrounded by people? People are absolutely up in arms over it.
• Staff going back to work in offices where social distancing can happen fairly easily instead of remaining on furlough? More outrage! It's so unsafe!
• Key workers using public transport to get to work? Meh, needs must.
• Other works using public transport to get to work? How on earth can I get to work without a car?! This is killing us all!

I do want to say that I am also aware that this isn't the opinion of everyone. There are plenty of people who have supported NHS and retail workers from day 1. But, the odd few have these really odd double standards and I honestly can't understand it. It just really seems like a huge case of 'well I need bread and healthcare so you can risk it but I don't want to risk it myself'. Sad, really.

@OneandTwenty totally agree. Such a dangerous concept to have thrown into public consciousness.

• Sorry link didn’t work. www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/may/12/tories-lockdown-social-distancing-testing-second-wave-coronavirus?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

The economy & public health are the same side of the coin - not on opposite sides.

That's an excellent point and one I heard made very effectively this week. It's not public health OR economy - you need both. Where is your workforce to ensure economic growth, if people are ill? To ensure economic growth, you need to be creative about your work practices to ensure we can still deliver high-quality work, safely. I have two immuno-compromised people on the team I manage. For them, they cannot return to normal work (i.e. office environment) until there is a vaccine in place. However, because we are working in a different way, I expect them to be able to work effectively from home, and we will adjust work practices - to make us more productive as a team, and workplace, and ensure that these individuals aren't forced out of the workplace OR put at risk.

@SeasOfChange

The OP. Using partial truths (yes, there are indirect deaths due to the COVID response) to stir up dissent against sensible advice. Promoting a selfish perspective (we're all susceptible to thinking about our own positions) and referencing irrelevancies. Classic construction.

Not all kids are the same but among my friends we all think that sending them back to school 1st June would be WORSE for their mental health.

They can't play, they can't go to their normal classroom.

My Daughter is shielded from thinking about the 'risk' side of it at home

She is mentally healthier here than in a school where they are all stressed about enforcing new rules which will be alien to her.

Think of the poor 5 year olds being in tears for being told off for hugging their friends and putting their fingers in their mouths!

All the statistics in the world goes out of the window when something endangers people you love. A friend of mine who lost a husband (civilian) in a war told me once... 'They said it was a good day. Only one casualty... however, that one was mine...'.

I agree with you OP I don't understand the mass hysteria. Now the teachers unions are on the case so god knows when schools will go back

Its NOT the fatereffects of the lockdown though is it?!? Its not the lockdown it's the virus... this is what we have had to do and what pretty much everywhere in the world including the US to an extent have had to do... it's not like we just did this mad thing that no one else did... in fact put lockdown has been pretty lax compared to many other countries... this is a response to the virus, this is what we thought was best to deal with it worldwide... no our kids are not going to be looking back on this and asking why we 'ruined' their lives... because it will be patently obvious why everyone decided to do this... and its patently obvious that places that didnt do it as strictly have much higher death tolls... thankfully perhaps not as high as predicted but still higher than places who locked down in a strict way very fast...
Lockdown was an inevitable consequence of a serious pandemic...

@stretchedmarks that's a good analysis tbf I've seen the same opinions