The comparison to Spanish flu?

[thewheelsonthebus23]

Why the constant comparison to Spanish flu? In my opinion, it’s closer in relation and similar to SARs number one. Which disappeared after it basically burnt itself out. I might be wrong, but I don’t see why the constant comparison is needed to Spanish flu.

I suppose because it’s the most recent big pandemic?

Did sars burn itself out? I thought it was contained using public health measures?

I might be wrong, but I don’t see why the constant comparison is needed to Spanish flu.

Because it's got maximum doom mongering value.

Spanish flu killed millions, I dont think SARS did?

Because it was the last global pandemic causing significant morbidity, mortality and economic collapse

Because it happened 100 years ago

Because we have a lot to learn from history, specifically regarding the similarities, differences and other tangential issues arising from it

In my opinion, it’s closer in relation and similar to SARs number one.

What's that opinion based on? The infectivity characteristics are significantly different, in particular people who are asymptomatic being infectious.

Well clearly the comparison is because it’s a pandemic. Spanish flu was the flu. Coronavirus is a coronavirus. So different underlying pathogens. But having just read Laura Spinney’s Pale Rider about the SF some of the parallels are quite startling

What's that opinion based on?

Maybe the fact that Covid is in fact SARS? The full name for the virus is SARS Cov 2.

Obviously there's a lot to learn from it but I am getting pretty fed up with the posters who smugly state that 'the second wave will be worse than the first. History tells us that,' as if the Spanish flu was the only pandemic ever.

Personally I am reading Journal of the Plague Year (free on kindle if anyone is interested) - not so much to learn about the epidemiological side of things, but the parallels in human behaviour are very startling - I keep wanting to call up Defoe and go 'omg, did you do that? That is exactly what we are doing!'

But having just read Laura Spinney’s Pale Rider about the SF some of the parallels are quite startling

I have that on my to read list

I recently finished reading A Journal of the Plague Year by Daniel Defore* and the parallels between now and then are also startling even though the plague was a bacterial infection carried by fleas and not a virus

If readers would like to listen to a free audio book the entire thing is here on youtube

also of interest to readers is the BBC production of the Roses of Eyam (1973), the poor quality of the video is a shame because the play is incredible and definitely worth watching for anyone interested in historical precendents re quarantine and lockdown

• Defoe was only 5 years old in 1665 and it widely believed to be the diary of his uncle

But having just read Laura Spinney’s Pale Rider about the SF some of the parallels are quite startling

Some very obvious differences too. Firstly, medicine was much more developed then. For some time, they thought the disease was caused by a bacteria and even when they realised it was a virus, they were powerless to do anything as they only had a vague ide of what a virus was, and no microscope was powerful enough even to see one, let alone examine it.

Also, Spanish flu was very different to Covid - and most viral diseases - in that many of its victims were fit, otherwise healthy young adults, whereas with Covid the vast majority of victims have been elderly, many of them with underlying health conditions.

My understanding is that the second wave of SF was worse because there was possibly a worse strain that made WW1 soldiers ill to the extent that they had to be sent home, thus transmitting that deadlier version across Europe?

Firstly, medicine was much more developed then

Much LESS developed, obviously...

Personally I am reading Journal of the Plague Year

It really is incredible isn't it?

There are aslo some very interesting documentaries about the black death - the plague pandemic in the mid C14

The link to the black death and the subsequent peasant's revolt is fascinating as was the rise of cults that claimed to cure or prevent the plague but that simply made things worse

I'm also reading the plague diaries!

I dont think they're comparable. One of the reasons the second wave of Spanish flu was so devastating is that people behaved non typically. Ie men with the mild cases stayed at the front, and men with severe cases were transported back home and therefore mixed with others. Usually the stronger strain dies first (people are too ill to mix) and the milder strain persists.

Cross posted @Daffodil101

Also, Spanish flu was very different to Covid - and most viral diseases - in that many of its victims were fit, otherwise healthy young adults, whereas with Covid the vast majority of victims have been elderly, many of them with underlying health conditions.

The reason the so called Spanish flu was so deadly was because it caused a cytokine storm, a catastropic inflamatory immune response in which the immune system goes into overdrive and attacks itself, in people whose immune systems were the strongest. The exception was pregnant women many of whom also died, even though the immune systems of pregnant women are suppressed naturally so as not to reject the foetus.

SARS-CoV-2 also causes a cytokine storm in some people. Even though this is a terrible disease, one of the long term benefits of it is likely to be a significantly enhanced undertanding of hte human immune system, or should I say systems, as there are 2 human immune systems, each one serving a different function.

I am not a doctor or immunologist, just addicted to learning about stuff that interests me.

I wondered this. Saw this shared on FB this morning. No wonder a few people are terrified

I struggle to understand all of this video but some of it is possible to grasp

the conclusions at 27.50 is fascinating

The average age of death for the Spanish Flu was 28 yrs www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3734171/

SARS-CoV-2 also causes a cytokine storm in some people.

I imagine most viral diseases do.

The fact remains that the Spanish flu attacked young people much more severely than Covid does. It's a very important distinction.

coldemort

Yeah I saw that too CadburyEgg. Ridiculous.

Hood - same here, I didn't even know about the non antibody side of the immune system before. And I don't think we will understand covid until we figure out how that is working with this disease, given all the people who recover but don't have antibodies.

The reason the so called Spanish flu was so deadly was because it caused a cytokine storm

I’ve accepted this as fact but recently found out that there are several theories about why the Spanish flu was so deadly in the second wave. A more recently popular one is that recently-off patent aspirin was prescribed in huge doses (that wouldn’t be prescribed now) and contributed massively to the death toll. I was reading an account which quoted a saying ‘wake up feeling ill and die on your way to work’. It killed so quickly and sounds terrifying.

I’ve taken to reading up about Life during the TB and polio outbreaks. I think I’m preparing myself for the future... fwiw people’s accounts are surprisingly cheery and stoic.

TheCountessofFitzdotterel thanks will download it