Truly shocking stats from the Office of National Statistics (ONS).

[ZuzusPetaIs]

Have a look at this graph, published recently by the ONS - an official government body would no incentive to lie

The Word / text document is easier to understand

www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/healthandsocialcare/causesofdeath/bulletins/coronaviruscovid19relateddeathsbyoccupationenglandandwales/latest

Read and weep

Let’s have the outpouring of love for security guards, taxi drivers and construction workers

"
I think this is much more sensible - lists dental nurses at the top for chance of exposure which is common sense to me - data also from ons."

That's because it confirms your prejudices and ignores the actual death/infection data in favour of a survey conducted in America that ASKS people how close they are to other people and how often they are exposed to infection

It completely ignores PPE, the work now being done or not being done, etc....

you should be grateful they are doing the stats

they are learning about this new virus
some professions are obviously more exposed to "viral load" even in Italy where they seemed to have better PPE they unfortunately lost health workers and doctors. The virus seems to successfully attack people with immune systems that are already compromised and those that are overweight ? so unless you are looking at all other factors as well as the jobs then you could be jumping to conclusions .

We're near the top of shit countries in the world dealing with this. We need to be realistic about the problems. Or, we and other countries are in the middle of a unique pandemic, every government is struggling. We need to be realistic about the immediate issues. Look for what will work NOW... don't dwell on what was, that will come later!

Years ago I had to study death rates amongst the population, it was the Victorian era so very different times and the amount of under fives who died skewed all statistics. But we looked at stats by class and working class men had the lowest life expectancy, I always remember it was something like 29 years in deprived areas.

Of course death rates increase amongst the poor, a poorer diet, working class people are more likely to smoke and obesity rates are higher amongst people on lower pay. Plus if unwell and this isn’t just about covid but with any illness they are more likely to carry on until they can, resting is not on their radar if they can’t afford to stop working.

The one stat that has only been briefly touched on is weight. I have read being overweight is a contributing factor to the illness being harder to cope with I also know we are the fattest nation in Europe. I had a quick look around online yesterday but would really want a better source to confirm such as WHO but Places like in China and Korea the average weight of a woman is 20kg below that of women in the UK. Asian vs UK height is different again not a reliable source but it’s around a four to five inch difference So UK women should weigh more but not that much more.

I have no idea what some of those labels refer to, but health professionals are lower than average, which is surprising since they are on the very front line. Care professionals are above average, we already know they didn't (and possibly still don't) have adequate PPE, so not surprising IMO. I'm surprised that people in hospitality seem to have died in relatively high proportions - my DH had seen figures saying that chefs were among those most affected - why? Surely chefs are in the kitchen and it's counter/wait staff who are most vulnerable?

Anyway, the fact that many categories of professionals are under the average for CV-19 deaths doesn't surprise me at all, as those are generally the most wealthy and well educated. Therefore, they're the ones most likely to be in good health to start with - people who live in spacious homes with gardens, people who take exercise, have good nutrition, can afford to take time off for holidays, don't live in cramped, overcrowded, substandard housing. We know that underlying conditions and obesity are major risk factors - those working in professional careers are least likely to be in seriously poor health or they couldn't do those jobs.

Surely chefs are in the kitchen and it's counter/wait staff who are most vulnerable?

Chefs aren’t socially distanced and are in a c consumed area - counter staff are

Security guards tend to be big, chunky men.
Being male and overweight are major risk factors.

Yes i agree with winged the same with tax drivers etc even if not overweight blood glocose levels due to being sedentary would be higher than say a teacher who is standing almost all day...
As are nurses and drs.

Obviously construction is also higher but would be standing more too.

Tbh i think this data is too flawed.
Risk is clearly going forward
Contact with people outside your household

• so parents

Anyone not wfh who is within 2m of anyone and increasing by the number of contacts without masks/screen Personal risk factors (vit d levels/sex/age/health conditions)

• larger family
• smaller house or sharing

Some people have increased their own risk (by not getting vit d/being overweight)
Others decreased it by smoking

We have changed many jobs to reduce risks (cash/screens/masks/distancing) so need to look from when those changes took effect.
Even delivery people risk would be much lower no signing etc.
Masks on PT and on everyone going out would reduce everyone's risk.
Dentists and gp shut quite early and opticians have been closed and almost all shops all pubs. These comparisons are actually pretty meaningless. Eg for pub staff it could be they are still doing lockins or overweight or drink too much are more men or are very sociable so havent been observing SD now or are in air conditioned environment or were taking change, lots of people stood at the bar.

Taxi drivers
Not sure what changes have been made but screens and no cash or open windows etc could make it much less risky that other jobs and wearing a mask. Also working a route outside airport or public transport. Or are more of them BAME?
All workplaces are being asked to SD

Being male and overweight are major risk factors.

No. The data are sex separated. Overweight is a very minor risk factor. Morbid obesity is a more serious risk factor, because the clue is in the name. Security guards have high risk for their sex.

. Or are more of them BAME?

It might be the other way round - the fact that 20% of Bangladeshi and Pakistani men are taxi drivers and 4% of white men is what contributes to their higher death rate. This seems more likely, than people with brown skin being inherently at higher risk because they have brown skin.

This seems more likely, than people with brown skin being inherently at higher risk because they have brown skin

As I understand it there is research going on because it appears that ethnicity is inherently a factor although I don't think we know why yet

And, slightly OT, it's much clearer to follow if you use the bolding when quoting another post

I'm surprised that anyone is trying to deny that taxi drivers are at extremely high risk BECAUSE of their work, and instead imply that they are at fat and lazy.

We knew months and months ago that people spending significant time together in confined spaces were very likely to spread the virus - from a single group dinner the majority of attendees were infected. Taxis are PERFECT conditions to spread covid-19.

In addition while the 🐑 have been outside clapping for the NHS and we've rejected hundreds of tons of PPE for medical workers because it wasn't quite right, and we've had inquiries into single deaths, people working in these kind of jobs have got the square root of fuck all.

Same with care workers. Low paid, likely to have poor English, lower educational attainment, less attention paid to and awareness of infection control

There are multiple components to the risk equation, which are not only exposure, which is very obviously present with taxi drivers when you consider that there is 100% absolute certainty that they will carry an infected person within a few days of work, but also attempts at risk mitigation, which were very high with the NHS, moderate with care workers , and essentially nil with private hire drivers.

Reminds me of the old study of bus conductors and bus drivers, the latter had much more a risk of dying than the conductors standing up..

Well obviously with almost all diseases there is a link between genetics, lifestyle and the environment.

Closer contact with other people at work = higher risk.

Hardly news.

As I understand it there is research going on because it appears that ethnicity is inherently a factor although I don't think we know why yet

I'm pretty sure that has NOT been claimed.

Here's the official study

www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/deaths/articles/coronavirusrelateddeathsbyethnicgroupenglandandwales/2march2020to10april2020

And supporting data

www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/deaths/methodologies/coronavirusrelateddeathsbyethnicgroupenglandandwalesmethodology

We know that black people are more likely to have died from covid-19.

We don't know why, however it's blindingly obvious that for example some jobs have had a zero occupational risk for a long time, e.g., people working from home in desk jobs, while others have had a continued high occupational risk , e.g. meat processing, where people are in confined spaces which are ideal for viral spread.

Essentially if you work in a factory you are CERTAIN to have been exposed to viral load, whereas people sitting at home doing legal work etc will not.

We know for absolute fact that there are huge disparities in the jobs that different ethnicities do, but also that in general the lowest paid jobs are manual labour, which cannot be done from home.

Thats on top of the extra risk for example in the fact that 25% of the entire Bangladeshi population of the UK lives in one London borough, and London experienced the first and highest infection rate.

It might be that there are inherent racial differences but these aren't as obvious as the fact that say taxi drivers are going to be exposed to far more infected people than computer programmers, of whatever race.

Once you factor in that 1/4 deaths are of people with diabetes though you would strip out more deatgs in certain jobs than others...
Anyone driviing all day will have high BG. Plus probably doing shifts not being able to eat meals.
Hardly lazy they are working, it is just sedentary.
If taxi drivers are high risk to catch it which seems likely then more safeguards are needed. But it is also more lijely they would die too due to the demographic.

Also likely that people taking taxis are at high risk as they are contaminated by other passengers and catch it from taxi driver too...
Maybe taxisneed to be stopped if they cant run safely. Fundamentally we dont know who cauggt is at work or who on PT or who at the supermarket

Good post *ShootsFruitAndLeaves. I heard a commentator make exactly the same point about the protection levels for people in different occupations. Contrast between care workers and health care professionals is particularly stark

ShootsFruitAndLeaves thank you for your posts.

The telegenic nurse on the frontline is always going to get more sympathy from the clappers than the 55yo taxi drivers who are dying. And the nurse will sell more papers too.

OP I wish you’d tell us what the shock is.

@CuriousaboutSamphire I know the ONS produce, publish, discuss stats. My point was they don't normally get much air time or action. E.g. BAME deaths - when was the last time health inequalities were headline news?

Once you factor in that 1/4 deaths are of people with diabetes though you would strip out more deatgs in certain jobs than others...

That's not true of this population, which is the 1/10 (as of last week) covid-19 deaths aged under 65.

We also know 18% of the total deaths had dementia, but that's very clearly not true of the population under 65, but will be a large proportion of those aged 80+, which are 60% of all covid-19 deaths.

16% of the population 65+ has diabetes, so 25% of deaths, 90% of which are 65+ having diabetes isn't anything like the revelation it sounds.

No doubt diabetes is overrepresented in this cohort compared to the underlying age profile, but it will still mean 85%+ of the deaths did NOT have diabetes

My point was they don't normally get much air time or action. E.g. BAME deaths - when was the last time health inequalities were headline news? Oh, I see. Apologies! I agree with you there!

That's partly why I have spent a lot of time trying to explain the ONS to a lot of friends in real life. Again, apologies if I offered you egg sucking classes!

I'm also sick of the telegenic nurses.Most if us don't look like that and are too tired,mentally and physically to be sanctimonious about our job.
We've turned a corner on Covid and now have to uphill task of catching up with the back log of patient needing care and ops while keeping an eye out for covid.