Those with diabetes, dementia and chronic pulmonary disease at high risk

[BeforeIPutOnMyMakeup]

According to Sky News if you have diabetes, dementia or chronic pulmonary disease you are at high risk of dying from Covid-19.

They can't clarify whether it is type 1 or type 2 diabetes.

news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-a-quarter-of-covid-19-patients-who-died-in-england-had-diabetes-11988326

Toffee

I am not 'victim blaming' Type 2s. Why mention that and then deny accusing me of doing so? I am pointing out Type 2s account for 90 percent of diabetics. And weight is the major risk factor for Type 2 diabetics. That is in the link to the UK diabetes website. Stating the facts isn't victim blaming. Type 1s are being ignored and subsumed into the vast dominance of Type 2s when it comes to any discussion of diabetes. I make no apology for challenging this sloppy conflation.

Type 2 also costs the NHS billions...maybe this could be a way to encourage people as they don't want to catch the virus.

Not all people are like this of course but I know someone myself who says 'oh I'll just take the insulin' and doesn't bother to change anything. He likes his pies and white bread too much!

That was after his sister tried to give him the blood sugar diet book...

There is a strong genetic component to type 2 diabetes, it is not only caused by obesity. The comments on this thread remind me of an observational comedy show years back when someone was asked have you got good AIDS or bad AIDS (transfusion v sexual transmission)

It's not new information that diabetes is a risk, this was widely publicised prior to CV outbreak in the UK and it's hardly rocket science that having chronic pulmonary disease is going to put you at high risk.

You're right Orange Not treating patients early is a false economy. Preventative healthcare, providing decent housing with cooking facilities, and access to affordable varied fresh healthy food would be expensive upfront but save lots of money longer-term.

Too many people have ended up with diabetes because they were left languishing on long NHS waiting lists for treatment. Disabled or limited (worsening) mobility during the wait. And all the poor sods left suffering because their health issues were dismissed as anxiety or 'womens trouble'. Months or years later thyroid or iron or vitamin deficiency or some other condition is finally diagnosed. In the meantime the patient has gained weight and their health deteriorated because of the lack of treatment.

It's awful isn't it. Cheap carbs being the main or only option for people on low incomes and living in homes with no proper cooker or fridge or freezer.

@kingkuta

I find your comments pretty offensive. The difference between Type 1 and Type 2 is nothing like your curious parallel with Aids. Do you know anything at all about Type 1 diabetes? The typical onset is childhood or adolescence. The treatment is insulin. Without insulin, a Type 1 will die. Let's say you get it at 16. Or 6. The rest of your life will be about a rigorous balancing act to ensure your sugar levels are stable. Not too high. Not too low. Hypos can kill you. Especially during the night if you are asleep. Do you think that's comparable to a 55 year old who is on tablets and with a low carb diet and weight loss can reverse the condition? Not remotely. Your comparison is BS.

Yes there a range of environment, genetic and lifestyle causes aren't there.

With my friend's brother there are no money related issues however his job probably doesn't help either as very sedentary (driving instructor)

And yes different to Type 1 as an autoimmune condition so quite different.

Also sometimes MH problems can be due to diabetes and heavy weight too, it is all interlinked...there seems to be a link between depression and inflammatory conditions, and blood sugar crashes after high carb sugary foods can cause anxiety, as well as food cravings being part of comfort eating. Oh and also some MH meds cause carb carvings into the bargain

I know this too well- have tried hard to change my eating habits- as I'm on such meds and have regular blood sugar and metabolic tests. I'm not diabetic or pre-diabetic but it takes a real effort at times

It's definitely not easy all the interlinked issues. You sound like you're dealing with it really well and I know that must take a lot of effort and motivation. I wonder if your brother's friend is scared to try and fail?

Bovary I'm sorry, it must be very hard worrying about your child and the lack of awareness and clarity about the different types of diabetes must be frustrating.

Equally the type 2 victim blaming so commonly seen is very wrong. Contrary to what some believe, they too can die without insulin. Just as you quite rightly wish to correct misperceptions and lack of awareness about type 1, so must the same lack of awareness and misperceptions about type 2 be corrected.

Type 2 Diabetes has been poorly understood for some time. Experts have been reassessing what they thought they knew. Like I said there's growing evidence suggesting that it too is an autoimmune rather than metabolic disease. Some experts are researching the possibility it might not be caused by obesity but rather it's triggered by it. That might turn out to be wrong but it's one theory being investigated.

It's not offensive at all to point out,as kingkuta did, the offensiveness of victim blaming type 2 diabetics. There absolutely is a narrative that type 2 is self inflicted. Which is not the case.

they too can die without insulin

Most people with type 2 diabetes don't take insulin, it's usually controlled with diet and other medication.

@ToffeeYoghurt

You are repeatedly failing to acknowledge the significant differences between Type 1 and Type 2. The ignorance on this thread about Type 1 and the continued attempts by posters like you to divert the attention back onto Type 2 shows a total disregard for Type 1 diabetics.

A) Type 1s die without insulin.
B) Typical onset is childhood or adolescence
C) From the age of 6 or 16, that requires a lifelong rigorous control of blood sugar
D) Hypos kill Type 1s

90 percent of diabetics are Type 2. Fact. Obesity or weight issues are a factor in 80 percent of Type 2s. Fact. Type 2 can be reversed with weight loss and low carb diet. Fact. Type 2 dont necessarily need insulin.Fact. Type 1 is a lifelong autoimmune disorder which requires rigorous control. I think it's astonishing that instead of acknowledging the differences between Type 1 and Type 2, there are posters on here whose ignorance of Type 1 is breathtaking. Facts aren't 'victim blaming.' But a refusal to acknowledge them is tiresome.

Most people with type 2 diabetes don't take insulin, it's usually controlled with diet and other medication

Exactly cathyandclare.

Good grief, @BovaryX give your device a rest before it starts smoking. Maybe a cup of tea, and refocus your eyes on something other than the shame-ranting.

You’re ignoring various finer points to come up with your simplistic dichotomy, anyway.

I’ve twice now seen family members in the generation above me develop apparent T2 diabetes (gallops through the family) after immobility -NOT WEIGHT GAIN - due to spinal problems (also seems to be a tendency in the family).

Apparently genetics and immobility are as big a risk as overweight, which I am grateful to know, as a member of an at-risk family.

It’s also becoming a pattern that relatives (of mine) originally classified T2, are now having their diagnoses revised to T1.5 (or LADA), one by one.

All of these nuances and possibilities are helpful for the public and at-risk groups to know. You can’t just be complacent that if your weight is okay, you will be too.

At the same time, it’s not good if overweight people are shamed into avoiding diagnosis and treatment and become depressed.

So the articulated lorry of fat-shaming you’re determined to plough through this thread is misleading and a touch unhelpful.

There has been some interesting research over the last 10-15yrs regarding genetic predisposition to Type2 diabetes, heart disease and periodontal disease. At my yearly checks for hypertension I am always tested for Type 2 diabetes.
As a GDP one of our medical history questions is do you or any member of your family have type 2 diabetes It is well known to run in families. We are also encouraged to refer patients with chronic perio disease for diabetes screening, when it appears in middle age it is often hand in hand with perio disease.
Although medically assoc with obesity there may be a lot of sub clinical type 2 diabetes in patients who are borderline and in normal weight/ overweight ranges particularly in the 65+ age group. It is probably another disease of old age. In younger age groups it is probably exclusively the result of obesity.

This thread is about coronavirus mortality rates, and I would cautiously suggest that in this specific case it's not that important to distinguish between type 1 and type 2 diabetes. I say this as a type 1 diabetic with many close family members who have type 2.

As far as I can see the main differences between type 1 and type 2 are about what causes the conditions to arise, i.e. type 1 is autoimmune; type 2 is frequently (though not always) linked to weight, age, ethnicity. Obviously I've very much oversimplified here.

The sad fact is that both conditions lead to a person having higher-than-average blood glucose levels over time, which has particular effects on the body. Your nerves don't care whether you have type 1 or type 2; a raised average blood glucose level (all but unavoidable for both types) will eventually cause the same damage regardless. I imagine (though I don't know) this kind of internal physical damage is what makes coronavirus particularly risky for diabetics.

I agree that in general distinctions should be made between type 1 and 2, to help understanding and awareness for the general population, and I'm looking forward to seeing the breakdown of the NHS statistics. However, I don't think this general discourse should muddy the waters of the new revelations, which are not about cause but effect. Many of my type 1 social media contacts seem to have defensively leapt to say "it must mean type 2!" when actually we don't know that to be the case. I'd just say be cautious before making those kind of assumptions, because they could be detrimental to health (although I truly understand the desire for self-preservation, and as a type 1 I selfishly hope I will be able to eat my own words when the breakdown of the figures is released next week ).

at the same time, it’s not good if overweight people are shamed into avoiding diagnosis and treatment and become depressed

@ArriettyJones

It's impossible to even discuss the significant differences in causes, complications or medical treatment between Type 1 and Type 2 because of this kind of response. The ignorance on this thread about Type 1 and the absolute determination to keep reverting back to Type 2 is astonishing.

It's impossible to even discuss the significant differences in causes,complications or medical treatment between Type 1 and Type 2 because of this kind of response. The ignorance on this thread about Type 1 and the absolute determination to keep reverting back to Type 2 is astonishing.

A) You’ve very selectively quoted that para, ignoring the even more important point I made in the earlier paragraphs.

B) it’s a serious public health point. There is a genetic element to all types of diabetes. Seeking treatment is better than not: You’re dominance of the entire thread seems to be an attempt to establish moral superiority, rather than address the various issues.

YOUR^ dominance, I mean.

(Just count up your post count on this thread.)

The posters above all say exactly what I've been saying. Better than me

It's ironic you complain of ignorance but continue to perpetuate the same ignorant myths about type 2 diabetes.

I've noted several times the differences between the types (like I said some experts believe there are four or more). As other posters have said at this stage we don't know re Covid if it's relevant which type. That's not me ignoring the difference. It's possibly (not yet known) Covid ignoring the difference.

As said by others there's growing evidence type 2 is autoimmune rather than metabolic. And quite a lot of type 2 are insulin dependent. They too can die from hypos. It's not as common but because it's less known about, the patient is sometimes very vulnerable because neither they nor their doctor know to look out for it.

Like I said there's a lot of recent research reassessing what was thought to be known about type 2. Like a pp says some people are initially thought to be type 2 when they're actually a form of type 1.

Why so angry? Why does that offend you so much? It doesn't mean type 1 isn't serious.

If Covid doesn't distinguish between types than any differences are irrelevant here. If it does, as you think, affect type 2 more than it's quite right that in this instance we focus on them. After all they're the ones at high risk of Covid death.

@ArrietyJones

Your posts demonstrate a profound ignorance about Type 1 diabetes. I initially posted here because the statistic that one quarter of Covid deaths were diabetics might cause alarm for the parents of Type 1s. This is a parenting website. The typical onset of Type 1 is childhood and adolescence. But instead, as your post epitomizes, my attempt to differentiate between Type 1 and Type 2 just results in accusations of fat shaming. It proves my point that the word diabetes has been colonised by Type 2.

@ArrietyJones

Your posts demonstrate a profound ignorance about Type 1 diabetes.

No they don’t. I haven’t really commented on T1 much at all, so my comments on T1 can’t amount to profound anything,

my attempt to differentiate between Type 1 and Type 2 just results in accusations of fat shaming. It proves my point that the word diabetes has been colonised by Type 2.

In point of fact, your determination to ignore LADA (T1.5) rather highlights your black and white agenda.

@ToffeeYoghurt

I'm sorry but I find your attempt to draw similarities between the two to be quite offensive.

I rarely moan but type 2s have absolutely no idea what life is like for type 1s.

I've barely mentioned type 1 (except to agree it's different). I've been discussing type 2. If you see similarities then perhaps that's because there are, I don't know. If you have a problem with the medical research and experts, take it up with them.

Why the aggression towards type 2 diabetics? Those poor people. I'm quite sure none of them think it's a competition over who has it worse. This thread is about the high death rates from diabetics with Covid. It's already been said that at this stage the information is unclear as to whether it's affecting all diabetics or one type in particular.

Partha Kar is releasing some data related to the deaths by those with diabetes shortly. It's not singularly binary and looks at age, type, ethnicity comorbidities etc.

Ffs It’s both types of diabetes that are risk factors because Covid-19 caused ketoacidosis which can be lethal for either type. I would bet the obese people impacted are undiagnosed type 2 diabetics.