'Significant numbers of children become seriously ill with Covid-19'

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childrensnational.org/news-and-events/childrens-newsroom/2020/significant-number-of-children-become-seriously-ill-with-covid-19

Those who like to use the word mongering when posters talk about poor outcomes, look away now.

We don't know enough to send children back to school. About the virus. About the scope of our government's scientific advice. About our competency to meet the tests for leaving lockdown. They seem to have become conditional but they needed to be non-negotiable.

We're not Finland. We're utterly crap compared to Finland. So let's not pretend we'll have Finland's outcomes just because Finland is clever. (And roomy).

For those who think it's vanishingly unlikely to be your child. Fair enough. But it will be someone's child. So let's get our ducks in a row and hold the government accountable to deliver a competent, proven test and trace system with a low enough transmission rate to ensure it will work.

This is not flu. Flu doesn't create this kind of death toll. We don't even know what it is yet but the urban myths about children being invincible and harmless if infected need to stop. If this goes wrong and we have a vaccine in the the time frame put forward by some researchers, we'll point the finger at the government for not making us wait. Let think twice about what we do instead. The government are responding partly to pressure from the electorate. So let's pressurise them to be competent.

This isn't the blitz... It's potentially so much worse. Our current advisors are saying the only good thing about COVID-19 is the way it passed over children. That isn't the case and it isn't something to rely on.

It’s not an ‘urban myth’ that that children are barely affected by this, but a statistical reality. It’s still worth bearing in mind though.

Quoting from the experts on this re: Kawasaki disease:

• Doctors in Italy have reported the first clear evidence of a link between Covid-19 and a rare but serious inflammatory disorder that has required some children to undergo life-saving treatment in intensive care units.

• Writing in the Lancet, the medics warn that the “strong association” between the virus and the inflammatory condition should be taken into account when governments ease their lockdown restrictions. They stress, however, that the disorder is very rare, affecting no more than one in 1,000 children exposed to the virus. A fraction of these require intensive care.

• Between 75 and 100 children are now receiving treatment across the UK.

• Dr Liz Whittaker, a clinical lecturer in paediatric infectious diseases and immunology at Imperial College London, said cases followed the curve of the coronavirus outbreak and appeared to have peaked, though she could not rule out more as restrictions are lifted. “We are not seeing many children who are really unwell with this condition,” she said. ”It shouldn’t be a factor when we reopen the schools.”

But children catch all manner of diseases in schools and we don't close them. We balance risk and benefit.

It is too soon for it to be a statistical reality.

fullfact.org/health/children-transmitting-coronavirus/

“ A study has concluded that there have been no cases of children transmitting the new coronavirus.
Conclusion

This claim is taken out of context. It is the finding of one study among a review that found contradictory evidence about transmission of the new coronavirus in children. The review concluded that “the role of children in passing the disease to others is unknown”.”

www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-52648557

It's very very rare for children to die from Covid. The Kawasaki syndrome is also very rare and is not exclusive to this virus. It's been around long before Covid.

Scaremongering is exactly what you're doing. And it's a wholly unreasonable point you make. Believe what you like but stop trying to frighten people with misleading misinformation.

It’s extremely rare, like a pp said, it’s a very small risk.

@Mascotte completely agree.

Well I mean children get seriously ill and die of chickenpox and flu as well it people don’t freak out each time one of those diseases is going around. I just don’t see anything to indicate that this disease poses a significant threat to children (I’m not saying it doesn’t, we may well only see it’s long term effects in ten to twenty years).

It’s rare but not impossible www.theguardian.com/science/2020/may/13/italian-doctors-find-link-between-covid-19-and-inflammatory-disorder

Kids die of chickens pox, measles, flu, whooping cough, RSV etc etc etc. All caught primarily at school and in the community. Pregnant women catch German measles, risking deafness in the foetus. Strep throat and rheumatic fever with death and profound disability are epidemic in my home country. I remember children used to routinely catch hepatitis B at school. Polio circulated in the community during the 40s and 50s. Parents were reportedly terrified of their kids catching. Some would cross the road to avoid passing a house thought to be affected. Terrified.

We didn't and don't shut down society or close schools. We kept going to avoid our children the certain death of starvation. Who will feed the UK if we refuse to feed ourselves? Refuse to feed our own children? Noone.

@Mascotte it's not Kawasaki, it has similarities to Kawasaki. Kawasaki usually affects under 5s, which is not the case here. The government could do a retrospective track and trace, based on volunteers with antibodies, to get an idea of transmission in school before the lockdown. However, they won't, they can't be bothered with anything like that. They'll just do a real time experiment with the population instead.

'Significant numbers'
What percentage would you call that?

It's very rare and the thread title is designed to scare.

Lots of illnesses can have post viral complications in rare instances. It doesn't mean we stay in the house for months to avoid them.

There’s around 16 million under 16s or something like that. What does significant mean in this context?

I have been following this new inflammatory disorder quite closely since in first emerged. My son was diagnosed with a similar inflammatory disease at the back end of last year so the symptoms/treatments are familiar to me. The main things I can take from the info is that it is extremely rare. The cytokine Storm response that is mentioned (MAS) is quite significant medically, but also something doctors know how to treat so, they have protocols for medicines to use which it seems in general have been successful. The reassurance that it looks like they are able to treat this should mitigate the fear of the risk. I realise that one child has sadly died, but there are always individuals, in any illness that for unknown (or known) reasons don’t respond to treatment. In this case the child was 14 and was 90kg. Rightly the public are not given details about comorbidities of individuals but I do think data can be misinterpreted by the public when they don’t know the full science behind the outcome.

So many people against schools opening. We should be looking at how to make it possible rather than this constant negativity.

The thread title is designed to catch attention, I agree. However, the daily briefings (that I've heard) have not addressed the issue of complications in children at all. That is what is worrying people. It gives the impression of complacency and a glossing over of inconvenient details.

There is a trend on MN lately of belittling people that raise understandable fears about the virus. It is very new, we don't know the long term health implications on anyone.

These cases in children are not Kawasaki Disease and they are not children that might have been hospitalised with Kawasaki anyway. Yes they are a statistically low number at the moment, but they are evidence to the legions of people that insist children are unaffected or children don't transmit the virus.

They must be included in the conversation, because they are a blatant contradiction of the prevailing message and that is what makes them seem more significant than they may be.

Our chief medical officer admits he didn’t risk assess the return to school plan and that children can play a role in transmission. The Independent is leading with the spread of the virus related syndrome affecting children and yet Mumsnet continued to gaslight and dismiss anyone who raises legitimate questions about needing to properly assess risk and plan for a return to school safely. We all want children back at school but not until it can e done safely and we have properly assessed and mitigated the risks. Sorry if that’s inconvenient.

Sorry if that’s inconvenient?

Are you always that passive aggressive?
Some people have had no choice but to send their children to school, comments like are just rude and demonstrate a basic lack of understanding of the pressure that some people are under and that school is often the safest place for some children.

I am worn out with people constantly looking for why things won’t work. Can we look at how things might work maybe?

Out of 32,000 deaths, two children under 14 have died. In that time period, 300 kids have died of other causes.

That’s the reality. Those are the facts. Have you lived in fear of flu, colds, chicken pox, measles, a car crash, your kid falling down the stairs?! Or have you just lived your life until now.

Sorry if you have such healthy anxiety & a comfortable financial situation & home life. Many don’t. The schools need to open. We cannot wait for a vaccine in a years time when it’s more likely kids will become seriously ill with something other than Covid. If you want to keep your kid at home & home school, then go ahead. Get off your high horse.

People have to make their own decision. Mine is already in school because of the very high risk of serious harm to his mental health that would make it impossible for him to live at home. This news doesn't change my decision.

But a risk of dying or being seriously ill is not like a risk of getting the sniffles. Rates are low at the moment as kids have not been at school. They are likely to rise considerably when kids go back.
Ask yourself why Scotland and Wales are saying no schools to go back until September. They are putting lives before economy.
I wish I lived in Scotland.

What mascotte said.

There is a far higher risk of serious complications from measles, mumps, chicken pox etc...

We don’t isolate to stop those. There is even an effective vaccine which many people refuse, saying the danger from the vaccine is higher than that of the disease....

As far as i know this new syndrome while serious is still treatable.

500 children have been hospitalised in total with CV. That’s a tiny amount.

We take chances all the time. This one is no different. The alternative is to stop going out completely...