So the school guidance is out...

[Norecallpup]

Sorry if this has already been done. I could cry, I really could. Absolutely nothing. Just wash your hands, wipe down surfaces and encourage kids to cough into tissues! I don’t know why I’m shocked. Our government are a bunch of twats!

And even if the danger to health weren't enough, it's awful pedagogical advice

Yep this is a problem I have with it.

Solutions might involve children attending a nearby school.

How is that a reasonable solution?

I'm in early years so ages 2-4.
We had emails from the early years alliance earlier stating that we should prepare to welcome back ALL children, not just those of key workers or others returning to work from June 1st.
So that's 30 small children in 1 room with 1 toilet block. We are encouraged to keep them in small key groups to minimise social contact. We should only use toys that can be disinfected after use.

All I know is if I had a child at this age who did not need to be there I wouldn't send them in.
It is just not possible to keep them apart, no playing games, no running about together, no dressing up, no play dough. And small children are just not known for their good hygiene or sitting still. And we as their teachers will just suck it up, get coughed on, have snot wiped on us , clean up wet pants, sick and blood and of course give out the cuddles and sit them on our knee when they're ill coz that's who we are.
I don't know the answer but I know this just doesn't sit right.

I'm a nursery teacher too... I could cry! Also my children go to two different settings but can't be looked after by their grandparents to minimise mixing? Wtf??

I dont understand what people want to happen. Do you want schools to close until there is a vaccine?

My childs emotional needs are not being met if he cant see a single other child for 5 months, which it will be if he doesn't go back until september.
We don't actually know what damage isolation is doing to children.
My child is privileged, we have books, games, a garden, a device to access the very limited amout being sent from school.
I feed him, I dont beat him or emotionally abuse him.
Many others are not so lucky.
I cant as a single parent meet all of my child's emotional, social and educational needs in these circumstances for 6 months.
We need to go back sometime.
My brother and sister cant say they wont work with people that might pass the virus to them.
There are vulnerable people they need to look after.
So why are teachers different, the risk is the same.

I was just thinking schools are probably going to have even more key workers children as well. I’m a ta who’s been working from home the moment I go back my children will need to go to their schools so will be adding more to the numbers. A lot of schools aren’t going to have to find space for them too.

Yes, mine too. Key worker children will still have to be in every day, so how does that work with these select groups of 15 that aren't supposed to mix?

One bubble taught by the teacher, one by a TA, what nonsense is this? Unworkable. They can't have a the classes in at the same time but split into different rooms - there aren't enough classrooms. No sharing of toilets between different year groups - how many toilets do they think there are in a primary school. If they come in on separate days am I supposed to stay at home when it's not "my" group while my TA does my job? No toys or equipment in EYFS? What are the children supposed to do? Almost every activity is practical.

They would do better not to publish guidelines rather than nonsense like this. If they want groups of 15, publish specific guidance for how this will be arranged. The rest is just unworkable guff. They know it's unworkable but are publishing it to pay lip service to health and safety so they can blame schools if infections rise for not following the unfollowable guidelines.

As a teacher what would you have liked to see in the guidance?

*Financial provision for schools to make adaptations as they see fit for additional hand washing facilities
*Financial provision for schools to have sufficient soap and hand sanitizer plus a commitment to sourcing this so we do not run out
*Building and architectural knowledge to help manage airflow in all our classrooms and the budget to make changes to make schools safer
*Financial provision for supply teachers to deal effectively with outbreaks
*the right to take temperatures a couple of times a day
*prosecution of carers and parents who send children to school after a dose of calpol, and/or with active symptoms
*funds for the families of teachers and school staff who die of COVID/with COVID

Schools should stay closed until it is safe to return. That may be when a vaccine is out or using other methods. The only way to really minimise risk would be to equip teaching staff with PPE and socially distance.

In early years this is pretty impossible but in secondary much easier. Still tricky but easier.

The whole situation is one which for some kids will be even more disruptive and difficult than staying home and being homeschooled.
^
This 100%. We’re just about in a routine now with my youngest with ASD. We’ll be in and out of lockdown more times than a Hokey Cokey before there’s any end to this. Work sent from schools working well for us right now.

@babybythesea *I keep seeing the comparison with shop workers. I know they have been working all through this. But shops have been controlled. Limits to the number of people in. One way system. And mostly full of adults who understand and want to comply with the social distancing.

Do shop workers regularly have to utter sentences like “Please don’t lick his face, he doesn’t like it. Well, I know he’s your friend, but we still don’t lick each other. We can say we are friends and that is enough.”*

The second paragraph is gold! I haven't been able to express it this well, but you're dead on. In the final week before schools closed, bearing in mind we were already on heightened hygiene procedures and washing hands at least 6 times daily, I had to ask (different) children to:

• Not pick up sticks and lick them
• Wash hands after picking their nose openly in class
• Wash hands after licking them "to see what that red stuff was"
• Not pick up stones and put them in their mouth
• Not to hug others without consent

And, for those thinking that Year 6 will be fine with social distancing, all of these were with my Year 6 class, who were following the same rules that the DFE has published today, and were militant about avoiding high fives and the water fountain.

All that said, I do want schools to open again, as some children are safer there, with a low risk of covid, than they are at home.

Not sure where the money is going to come from to keep the TAs employed all day to do this extra teaching...all of ours finish at lunch time! We only have part time (morning only) teaching assistants to support English/maths lessons in my school. If we are splitting our classes into bubbles of 15, we would need all of them in full time (we share them between classes anyway, so not even enough as it is!) to cover full days (assuming they are able to do this!)

There's not enough teachers (lots of part time/job-shares) and several shielding so won't be in. Even with only three year groups back for the first 3 weeks we have over 180 children to teach, plus 40 additional key worker children. 14 available classrooms IN TOTAL is not mathematically compatible with years 2/3/4/5 also needing 4 rooms EACH to comply with the 'bubbles of no more than 15 in each' guidance!🤦‍♀️ We need 28 rooms for this to be feasible 😂🤦‍♀️🤷‍♀️

Spare capacity: hall...possible for 4 of the older 'bubble' groups, but no technology in there so no smart board for learning. Ok for a short time. Difficult and dull for them long term. Library: one bubble...same problem re technology. ICT suite: one bubble space...showroom technology, no room fir anything else though as computers take up the space.

So that's possibly 6 extra bubbles (neither brilliant or long term appropriate but 🤷‍♀️). We are still 8 short.

And staff. And possibly money for staff.

Schools should stay closed until it is safe to return

And what if there is never a vaccine nor effective treatment? Who will keep on paying teachers indefinitely? How do you think the economy can function with a huge proportion of the workforce at home with children?

BTW I'm not being goady as I worry about sending my 3 year old back too but if I don't I will need to quit my job as I simply can't work and care for him, I just can't

having such flaky guidance leaves schools open to massive backlash if they do things wrong
Completely agree with this. The government is passing the buck to schools where it should be owning the issues, eg threatening criminal sanctions for parents who send a child in knowing that the child or a family member has Covid-19 symptoms. Schools are not in a position to sanction parents for such life threatening behaviour. And some of the guidance actually seems to go against the science, eg it suggests singing sessions when I believe there is evidence that people give off more of the virus when singing compared to speaking, and are more likely to become infected due to breathing in more deeply.

So why are teachers different, the risk is the same

I am not a scientist. But the way this virus is spread and the design of classrooms means that if someone is in a classroom with the virus, chances are it’s going to spread. At least there is acknowledgment that health professionals need PPE.

Not sure where the money is going to come from to keep the TAs employed all day to do this extra teaching

And once again - TAs are NOT paid to teach.

No.

I want the system to be UP AND RUNNING AND OPERATIONAL rather than theorectical. And I don't want bullshit like there was with the 100,000 test target.

I want the guidance to be realistic about what 4 and 5 years olds are like. And to be split into what is expected for y6 and specifically for reception.

I want the guidance to be realistic that telling teachers to use classrooms that normally are for other year groups is a huge undertaking of logistics which presumably single individuals are supposed to take on whilst also looking after the kids they currently have in school and the additional work of homeschooling.

I want to understand why I should feel like its safe for my child to be in a class of 15 as its not safe for them to be in a class of 30

I want clear information on how this will affect classes which have children who are SEN and have the teaching assistants assigned to them as one on one - but the said teaching assistants / teachers will now have to deal with these children on a 1 to 15 basis instead.

The guidance is half arsed nonsense.

@Elmerrrrrrrr

This is why I pointed out that the alternative to a vaccine is to socially distance. Right now, the only groups who can really do this are secondary or upper primary.

Schools will need longer to find a real workable way of keeping young children apart.

It says in the document - if you've bothered to read it before saying that it says Absolutely nothing. Just wash your hands, wipe down surfaces and encourage kids to cough into tissues! - that they will be publishing more guidance on early years settings soon.

PPE is for people who have close contact with people who are known or strongly suspected to be infected (e.g. paramedics). Not people working with the general population, the vast majority of whom will not be infected. Google the numbers of infected people in your area and then do the maths.

Schools will need longer to find a real workable way of keeping young children apart

There isn't one.

WTF have all these only children not even seen another child for seven weeks?! Don’t you go on walks? Have neighbours? Use Zoom or FaceTime? Have windows?!

In early years this is pretty impossible but in secondary much easier. Still tricky but easier

I’m sorry, but social distancing in schools with 1,200 children and narrow corridors isn’t going to work at secondary.

All this disruption rather than the kids going back when its ok to go back under these circumstances will produce anxiety and thats equally not in the best interests of the kids.

It would be better to prioritise the kids who go back first, without the rest of the bullshit.

Or to want until they deem it ok for all the kids to go back to classes of 30 (which seems to be the target for a month before the summer holidays anyway!)

We cannot lock down forever, we have to learn to live with corona virus, a vaccine may never be found.
The children need to learn and be with their friends for their mental health

I want to understand why I should feel like its safe for my child to be in a class of 15 as its not safe for them to be in a class of 30

I think I want to know why I, as a teacher, am OK to spend 7 hours a day in a poorly ventilated room with 15 other people (and effectively the people of their households) when I am not able to spend time with my family who live t miles away and have been self isolating all this time.