So the school guidance is out...

[Norecallpup]

Sorry if this has already been done. I could cry, I really could. Absolutely nothing. Just wash your hands, wipe down surfaces and encourage kids to cough into tissues! I don’t know why I’m shocked. Our government are a bunch of twats!

People talking about September as if things will be different, there won’t be a vaccine by then either!

The number of people in the community who currently have the virus are pretty high still. And there isn't tracing / testing in place and we only have 3 weeks to get this system up and running (pretty much untested).

Are we supposed to go 'yeah that sounds just fine' because its better to go back straight away if we have an alternative?

Or is it ok, for parents to go 'errr hang on a second, you need to do a little bit better than this entire shit show which treats my 5 year old as a guinea pig'.

And then we have our kids taught by unqualified classroom assistants (who although they are very nice and very experienced are still not teachers) overseen by overstretched teachers (who can't oversee the teaching staff in the same classroom as they aren't allowed direct contact).

And they have to do so after having removed 'non essential' materials and soft items and toys that cant be cleaned (remember we are talking reception here who are taught through play).

Are the teaching assistants going to get paid extra for being actual teachers?

Given that the teaching assistants that currently work in DS's year spend most of their time just managing the 3 difficult kids, how on earth are they going to manage four classes rather than 2 even if they are smaller?

And if he's separated from his best mate, we will have one hell of a meltdown on our hands and honestly I'm not sure DS would cope.

Is my child really going to get a better quality of education under those conditions, than at home? None of this is in my son's best interests.

He would be better at home until it IS safe enough for classes of 30 and the teachers and teaching assistants are being expected to work in high stress conditions. Which the kids will pick up on.

At the moment he's relaxed about the whole situation. All I can see this doing is putting kids into a situation which creates unecessary anxiety.

I've still got to explain why he is allowed to go to school, but he's not allowed to have his best mate around to play. Go on have that conversation with a 5 year old without tears.

Tell me why SHOULD kids be going back in such a shit show of a rush?

Utter disregard for teacher safety. Second wave and sick teachers will be the outcome.

Disgusting. September is the earliest schools should go back.

Viral load impacts on your chance of getting the virus

This is dangerous armchair science. Clinging into a random fact that applied to an entirely different profession and applying it to teaching.

FGS, you get viral load from spending day after day in very close contact with PEOPLE WHO HAVE the disease. Not from being with children who, in all likelihood, don’t have it.

Get a bloody grip.

@Hunnybears the guidance says that only staff in the extreme risk (or whatever it’s called) category can stay at home. Even people shielding for whatever the less serious risk group have to go in.

What's going to be different in September?

Nobody is being sacrificed.

The people raising issue here almost all seem either to be teachers, which I fully understand, when things are so unclear and this govt has form for throwing public servants under the bus, or families privileged enough to have a set up where they can keep children at home with a non-working parent or one doing very flexible WFH/ with older children who can self motivate and self-entertain.

There doesn't seem to have been much consideration for the children who most need school, though. The ones who, if they don't go back, will have been stuck at home for 6 months with, say, a single parent who needs to leave the house to work their zero hour contract job, so is getting further and further into debt, or an abusive carer, or with parents who are working all hours and have to park them in front of the TV, or who don't have the English skills or educational background to support them or to play.

Some of these kids are officially vulnerable and could show up at school, but fewer than 5% of vulnerable children are. Many others have never officially been on any register, but with a third of children in the UK living in poverty even before this, there are a lot of families struggling, where school provided stability, safety and a chance to be noticed if problems got overwhelming. Even many from more comfortable backgrounds are struggling with benign neglect while parents work or from anxiety, often passed on from very fearful carers. Many schools are doing plenty of online learning, but a huge number are doing very little, beyond links to Oak, which is dry and repeating concepts already covered in many schools.

The rules are unclear (which is to be expected by now from the crew running this very leaky ship), but there is enough latitude for a head to institute for example part time school for the group, split over the week. Lack of Ppe is a definite issue, but with schools having gone back or due to go back sooner in many many other countries, we at least have the chance to see what is done elsewhere and learn from the best of what they do.

Surely the teacher will have to teach both "bubbles"? How can a TA have essentially the same job with so much less pay? And how will it be fair on the children?

If someone tests positive from either group, that particular group all isolates and the teacher tests / returns if not positive?

Is it worth the hassle? Doing all this for this short time? Will it make the 6 week holls harder having had a taste of school life again?*

If primary schools manage to open without affecting R too badly, hopefully that will mean some holiday provisions can run.... because working parents are going to need that.

What's going to be different in September?

Lower number of people infected and less virus in circulation.

@LilyPond2

France
Germany
Italy
Norway
Netherlands
China

Also, schools are not opening for at least 3 weeks. By which time either infection rates drop or, they rethink whether to open schools!!!!

Would like to share this, as if you haven't enough to worry about.
My dd whilst much older than these children (16) has had Corona toes. More is being learned about it, and might be a sign to look out for, especially with children.
medicalxpress.com/news/2020-05-symptoms-coronavirus-covid-toes-skin.html

Barbie, it explicitly says that the adult should remain with the group and there shouldn't be swapping - so no, the TA group is the TA group, and the teacher group the teacher group.

If TAs become class teachers, who will do the work TAs normally do?

I know a few schools have class TAs, but I don't think that is the norm. Our TAs are almost all assigned to children with EHCPs.

THIS

DS is in a year of 60. 2 teachers and 2 teaching assistants. They have been struggling with the year group as they have 3 particularly difficult and disruptive kids. They've barely been able to manage it on a day to day basis, and it has had an affect on the kids. One teacher has been off with stress for a month as it is.

If those 2 classes are split into 4, there are still going to have 3 groups with three difficult pupils who need one to one support. So how does that work in the interests of the other 14 in the group?

I think one of the teaching assistants is actually shielding so what then? Who steps in?

Its bullshit.

Its shows an utter lack of understanding of how schools work and what teaching assistants do and how they support teachers on a day to day basis.

I’m really puzzled about the rational for infants. It really should be incoming reception children and outgoing Y2s. They’re transitioning between phases so need the support in the same way Y6 are.

I’d also really, really like a govt response to the NEUs #FiveTests.

What @SpokeTooSoon said, with bells on.

I don’t see why people are saying they won’t be sending their kids back.... this disease is going no where. So there’s not really much of an option.
This view is based on a fundamental misunderstanding. I agree that we are nowhere near eradicating the virus, but lockdown is currently working, as infection rates are falling. However, with many parts of the UK having estimated infection rates around 1% of the total working age population, it is too soon to be sending children back to school. We risk squandering what has been achieved by the lockdown. If we wait until infection rates have dropped further, it will be much easier to stop individual outbreaks before they get out of control.

I appreciate it is unlikely things will go back to "normal" for a long time, if they ever will, but I think it's understandable that many (not all) parents will be struggling to go from a mentality of "stay at home, only go out if absolutely necessary and don't mix with anyone outside of your household" to the idea of sending their children back to school possibly in 3 weeks time. By September things will have hopefully gradually started to open up a bit more and we, and our children, will be used to going out and about more and maybe even seeing other people from different households again. Maybe, who knows though. But I don't see what damage waiting until September would do.

Didn’t they estimate today that there were currently between 70,000 and 250,000 active infections in the country? Out of a population of 66 million that seems a pretty small proportion to me. They expected that figure to drop by half in the next 2 weeks. I just don’t find those figures very alarming.

As long as the R rate remains below 1 the number of infections should continue to drop even with schools back.

Covid toes affects adults too. An american friend in her 30's got it.

And @Stuckforthefourthtime. My feelings on this but far better written than I can manage!

There doesn't seem to have been much consideration for the children who most need school, though

Actually thats part of my consideration of not wanting my child to go back...

...if people who have the luxury of not needing the childcare (which tbh is all it will be under the circumstances and set up being described) perhaps they should just homeschool until September to take the pressure off the teachers.

My son, isn't going to get any attention from the teachers / teaching assistant because they will be merely managing the behaviour of the 3 difficult kids with little time for the rest of the kids there (especially the ones who are doing ok).

Why shouldn't I be putting my son's interests first anyway? The assumption here is that ALL kids going back is in the best interests of ALL of them.

I personally don't think thats necessarily the case.

We went from our very first transmission within the UK on I think it was the 28 Feb to where we are now in 2 and a half months. Currently we have roughly 200,000 cases. Where do you think that will get to over a 7 week period?

@LilyPond2 my sister is a teacher in Spain. She’s back to work next week. schools will be opened in Spain for early years (for those parents that can’t work from home ) y12 and those preparing gcse from end of may

*What's going to be different in September?

Lower number of people infected and less virus in circulation.*

Will it though? As more measures are lifted, the infection rate and R may well stay exactly the same or even get a bit higher. This would be expected as the lockdown is lifted. Schools need to get in first before socialising because education is more import and for the economy and the future. What if it's exactly the same in September but schools returning coincides with sick season in hospital. Problem is, no one knows!

this disease is going no where.

No its not.

But the system for tracing it, is not even up and running yet.

And we are supposed to send the kids back on a wing and a prayer and hope it is effective? When they fudged the data on the 100,000 tests a day just to save the embarassment of ministers?!

Are they serious?

This does have a huge element of trust. And the government is behaving in a manner which doesn't exactly build that.