So the school guidance is out...

[Norecallpup]

Sorry if this has already been done. I could cry, I really could. Absolutely nothing. Just wash your hands, wipe down surfaces and encourage kids to cough into tissues! I don’t know why I’m shocked. Our government are a bunch of twats!

I'm not arguing that schools should reopened as planned, but I do think it's naive to think that children not in school are all safe right now.

I never said they were.

I do think it's naive to think that children not in school are all safe right now.

It's naive to think children are all safe when schools are operating as normal.

I just feel I can't physically wfh and care for my 3 year old anymore.i shall have to leave my job

He said it’s fine because children don’t suffer from the virus and don’t shed it.

By September we would likely have enough data to determine if this is true or not. If it is true, we can go back to normal school safely. If not, we need a radical rethink of how we educate children.

DS1 is Reception and DD is nursery (part-time). I am not sending either of them back. I am not convinced by Boris at all. I want to see the R rates for all areas of the country and I want to see the Science and modelling he keeps referring to. DS1's Primary School is already over its numbers in the last 3 intakes. I can't see how they can possibly do social distancing in the school, especially if they have all year groups for a month before the summer hols.

DH (who is a secondary Head) agrees. He feels the same way about his school. They will cope with Y10 and Y12 only by completely re-arranging group sizes, timetables, how the day works- but teachers will be in very short supply (he is now expecting 50% to say they are 'vulnerable' or self-isolating) and those who are there will be very worried. He has no idea how he will manage in September if he has the whole school back - it will be 1300 by then as Y7 will be bigger than the Y11 who have left.

Two officers from the local authority Health and Safety did a walkaround yesterday with him and his Deputy and said each class was suitable for 6-8 children max to maintain social distancing. That means he needs between 3 and 4 classrooms and 3 and 4 teachers for every current timetabled class.

On average there are approx 70 classes (inc 6th form) currently timetabled each period of the day. So that will increase to about 210 each period! (Sixth form are smaller so will mostly manage). How will that work in September with 7 year groups and 1300 children? They are packed to the gills in the building as it is. It has one hall which doubles as the dining hall, assembly hall and a PE venue. Their outside space is not generous at all. Very few free teaching rooms each lesson. Then, where will he find another 3-4 teachers for every group, plus cover for the 50% who are absent, and they have to be subject specialists? Finding good Physics, Maths, English, Chemistry teachers can take 3 or 4 adverts at the best of times to get just 1!

It is a big problem and there are no easy solutions. Every school will be facing the same. Children need to return to school at some point but let's not pretend there will be social distancing and high hygiene levels because there won't. I think now is too early.

@foggybits
Anecdotally, children at my school are not in despite some risks in the home that are not insignificant.
Further anecdote: social services have a very high threshold. I know of families where there are patterns of drug use, domestic violence and neglect who are no longer working with social services. These children are therefore not considered vulnerable according to the DFE guidance.

Beyond that, young minds did a survey. 83% of children who had been accessing support said the situation has made their mental health worse. 26% said they weren't getting support they had been before (though for full disclosure, this was mid April, so I hope things have improved since)

Data from China shows there was an increase in domestic violence during Lockdown.

And this final point is not data, but common sense that worries me. Schools are a part of safeguarding children, as staff often notice signs of abuse and neglect. They can't do so now for the majority of children. Therefore, there will be some children at risk, whose situation will not be picked up on.

From what I have seen of the proposals, the thinking process is this:

• We need to loosen the restrictions. Let's allow people back to work, who can.
• what about people with kids?

-well, they can use their nanny.

• not everyone can afford a nanny.
• well, one of the parents will stay at he, surely.
• a lot of households need two parents to pay the bills.

-oh. Well, let's allow childminders to open for the preschoolers and get the schools open for the first two years. That should take care of the childcare problem. Anyone older can learn on a computer or just roam the streets in a feral gang. Anything else?

• well, Suzy from the accounts is worried about her Y6 child transitioning to secondary school in September.
• OK, let's add them in too. It will make us seem like we care about educational achievement.

@HaveAtEm I work with 2, 3 and 4 year olds. There is no way I can spend a day with those children and not have them on my knee. So yes I will, as I’m sure many other EYFS staff will, be comforting and caring for the kids. They’re babies, lots still in nappies and with no language.
How do you suggest I go on? Step over children who need first aid? Leave them to cry? Seriously?

@HaveAtEm and also a lot of my class will be upset at coming back after so long at home. How am I supposed to peel the children off their parents without being in very close contact?

norecallpup - I work with young children and completely agree. Myself and my colleagues are frequently in situations where we are cuddling and soothing children - it’s just of working with them. It’s not something we can just stop doing when it’s such a huge part of our job role.

@LuluJakey1 I don't think that the government are saying that strict social distancing has to be maintained in schools simply that some measure to minimise spread must be taken.
No school will have resource to social distance if all years go back (either classrooms or teachers). Breaking with the social distancing rules will be an acceptable risk because the risk to children is very small. The risk to teachers (if they are under 60 and healthy) of serious harm is also low (not nothing but still low). The risk to society of not teaching children for 12 months is pretty significant ergo on a risk and benefits model you accept some small risk overall for the larger benefit. I work in an area in which my work would bring my closer than 2 metres to lots of people, but I work in an area that is hugely needed by society. My expectation is that by September (if there is still low rates of transmission in the community) I will need to do my work in person and accept some very small risk.

Why can’t the kids see their grandparents? Why can’t they play out in the street together?

Exactly. So my TA, who is a great grandmother, can spend the day with unrelated children but not see her own family.

The guidance says that if a child in their group of up to 15 shows symptoms then the whole of the group plus staff will be sent home to isolate for 7 days (14 for the people living with them). This may be part of the reason for the small groups. So families are going to have to be prepared anyway for their child (and themselves) being quarantined, and quite possibly several times.

There's mention in the main guidance (not the education guidance) about some evidence of the virus being carried on clothes and that changing and washing clothes at the end of the shift/day and changing if moving between places is a good idea. This does inevitably leave you thinking that 15 young children coming in with whatever virus is in their household of assorted people, will then be exchanging it through the day and children will inevitably be coming home carrying whatever those other 14 households have, plus passing it to staff in the room. But this isn't mentioned anywhere in the educational guidance. The risks and precautions seen as so important for people out of schools are being brushed over with education staff to achieve the aim of childcare.

I the guidance it says that there is no need to wash clothes any more frequently.

Apologies @FirTree31 my comment was meant for the OP not you.

Anyone seen anything about private schools? I'm guessing they can do what they want

@HaveAtEm I did reply to your comment. Did you have any suggestions of how I can make this work with 2, 3 and 4 year olds?

@hettie, the government document does explicitly say that schools have to enforce strict social distancing for children who live with extremely vulnerable people, as my dc does. In an area like ours where multi-generational households are the norm (i.e. many children are living with grandparents), I can't imagine there will be many classes which don't have at least one child living with someone who should shield.

The guidance says that if a child in their group of up to 15 shows symptoms then the whole of the group plus staff will be sent home to isolate for 7 days

I don't think it does - it says

"When a child, young person or staff member develops symptoms compatible with coronavirus, they should be sent home and advised to self-isolate for 7 days. Their fellow household members should self-isolate for 14 days.

Where the child, young person or staff member tests positive, the rest of their class or group within their childcare or education setting should be sent home and advised to self-isolate for 14 days"

That suggests you don't self isolate if a child is symptomatic, only if they get a positive test. Maybe I've read a different bit

I wonder if the 60% furlough will change how many children are sent in.

PPE is a tricky one, it’s uncomfortable, it’s hot, it leaves sores, even the moulded to your face masks.

@qweryuiop I never claimed that keeping children off schools didn't have an impact on wellbeing. My point & my experience is that vulnerable children (those with social workers & ECHP plans) have been able to attend school settings. That's not to say they will but safeguarding teams have not forgotten those children.

@Norecallpup I agree it’s a shit storm. Which is why, as I said, unions are advising that we DO NOT cuddle etc (I absolutely understand your point about the age of the children 👍)) I’m on the same side...but we have to stay firm...and NOT do what the government are actually telling us it’s too dangerous TO do...which is hug non-household members 🤷‍♀️ If by NOT doing these things it means that our actual job is not viable...then they might actually see sense (might 🤷‍♀️🤦‍♀️) xx

I wonder if the 60% furlough will change how many children are sent in.

I guess it depends how many of those with small dc are actually furloughed.

Sorry @HaveAtEm I thought you were having a go at me. I don’t know the answers. It’s a right bag of shite! Another bloke on BBC just said it is dangerous and children do shed the virus!
This government needs to get it’s act together.

@hettie I agree with you. That's what I said at the end of my post- Children need to return to school at some point but let's not pretend there will be social distancing and high hygiene levels because there won't

It isn't possible but schools will be asked to try and make it happen - hence local authorities looking at what schools can do with the space they have.