More emerging about Covid and Kawasaki in Children

[woodpidgeons]

New York reports 73 cases of Children falling severely I'll with toxic shock like syndrome linked to Covid

www.theguardian.com/world/2020/may/09/children-coronavirus-death-kawasaki

It makes you wonder how many parents and caregivers are managing clinically mild conditions at home

Why would you wonder that when we've always known that there are plenty of mild cases for which medical help would not be sought?

Was I reading the BMI/weight correctly, in the sense that all but one had high BMI/weight? They were all from BAME communities, as well.

It's still very rare but both factors put the possibility of complications/death up in Adults. It needs more research to see if BAME children are being affected disproportionately.

People really need to gain some perspective on numbers. This virus has been circulating for months now. Yes it will affect some people differently. That will include young children.

But young children - very sadly - are dying of all sorts of things every day. The numbers are generally very low. I’m still more worried about my children dying in a road accident than covid-19.

We have to get children back to school.

I m do think everyone should make sure their child isn’t vitamin d deficient by giving them a supplement all winter and adequate sun exposure in the summer

If I go outside there is a 1 in a million chance my DS could be bitten by a rabid squirrel and die, so I am locking him in the cupboard under the stairs JUST TO BE SURE.

I wonder if there is a financial element to the figures in New York, so people not taking children to hospital until they are very acutely unwell because of a lack of insurance or limited insurance ?

I think it's the rising numbers that worry me, not the fact that the numbers are small.

Biscuit0110
This disease has been around for a very long time. Large numbers of children are not becoming ill.

This virus has been around for less than a year and, due to lockdown, hasn't been circulating among children for some of that time in lots of countries.
No, large numbers are not becoming ill, but this is hardly reassuring news, either.

@Barbie222 but unless it never happens to another child then obviously the numbers will rise. The fact is they still remain very small numbers.

If I go outside there is a 1 in a million chance my DS could be bitten by a rabid squirrel and die, so I am locking him in the cupboard under the stairs JUST TO BE SURE

What a helpful comment. Not dickish at all.

@frumpety

Quite likely, plus insurance companies are refusing to pay for testing, and other issues, my friends insurance refused to pay for inpatient because they said it wasn't needed for under 18's despite the fact her DD's lips were blue (hospital treated and are fighting with the insurance company currently)

To put some perspective on this: in 2016 1083 children under the age of 16 were killed or seriously injured on the roads in Britain.

Covid is scary because it’s an unknown and we don’t know much about it at the moment. But the chance of your child getting Kawasaki and Covid is so minuscule it shouldn’t even cross your mind. You car is far more dangerous to your children than this will ever be.

It's really sad - all the children were not white either (they weren't in the US article either).

As the PP said, it's still extremely unlikely for anyone young and healthy to get seriously ill from COVID. What's the alternative? Staying at home until there's a cure/vaccine? That intensive care hospital won't be there if we do.

Half of what bluntness said is completely incorrect and clear they didnt even read the link...
Yes the children are older that isnt really surprising though as

• its a new virus and usually they are exposed to coronaviruses before age 5 which is what they found when they investigated nl63.

Yes the kids were all bame so again vit d a factor but could also be the ace2 receptors maybe.
Fat reduces vit d
And obviously darker skin
Plus the kids are from london and i realised yesterday that - they have correlated cv to worse in air polluted areas.
But also i then looked into vit d and air pollution affects how much is absorbed.
But the air pollution chart vs the countries struggling with cv is pretty startling!

I do find it slightly worrying that the alert was issued in the UK on 28th April, at which point there were 20 children in ICU, but there has been no further discussion or update.
Considering how much about the virus and lockdown is continuously over analysed by the media, it seems out of character.

The cases will rise as it is delayed from the infection.
The kids did not have kawasaki beforehand.

Yes small numbers
But wont you all feel pretty shit when the uk has say 200 kids die of this when other countries have 0 and it will be because you fought to get your precious darlings back into school but by sept there could easily be evidence to show exactly how soon after infection this shows up so you can watch out for it and get them admitted straight away.
Or the gov actually get their finger out and start sorting out the vit D thing?
It takes a while to take effect which is why a delay strategy is so important but no lets slam the accelerator down!

But a recession and the resulting austerity will kill far more children than covid. It’s such a fine balance, to weigh up public health and the economy. Which, as much as anyone wishes it didn’t matter, it absolutely does.

Child poverty is a killer. I’d rather send my dd back to school with a minuscule risk and get the economy going again to protect the children who’s survival relies on a)being able to go to school and the protections that come with that and b) making sure the services that do protect them are not hit with massive cuts because of austerity,

I agree Teddy, but anything, including an uncontrolled pandemic and it's aftermath, will hit the poorest and vulnerable hardest.

In the lancet though only a 1/4 tested positive and a further 3 had exposure. 3 out of 8 were negative with no known exposure which is odd.

Unless we get quite a lot of false negatives which means that are numbers of people who have it must be high.

I think the fact that London and New York are showing high numbers must be significant.

Partly because one suspects of the numbers of children who have had it in these areas (which means that it is still rare) and the socio economic make up of it

I have a friend who works at the hospital in London where the cases are and they said they all respond very well to treatment and early treatment is key. This shouldnt be a killer if treatment is given early and the right care.

I wonder if the above is why New York is showing more fatalities from this a lack of health insurance means later care

I think the article posted by the OP said that of the children in America they were all either positive or had antibodies indicating an infection some time ago?

Quartz, there is some suggestion that antibodies are not always produced, that virus is fought by the T cells. Antibody tests are thought to producing a high number of false negatives (not false as there are no antibodies, but ykwim).

Half of what bluntness said is completely incorrect and clear they didnt even read the link...

Standard. I wish posters would not post opinion as arrogant fact.

... Sorry I don't have a source for that BTW. It may have been Inside Science (or similar) on Radio4 or an R4 podcast.

1 the pcr is only 70% accurate (showing if you currently have it)
2 depends heavily on doing test correctly and as it's shoving a swab up a kids nose...
3 this is delayed so some kids might not have virus in system by then
4 it is interesting that they said the kids were completely asymptomatic
5 antibody tests are probably more reliable for this but antibodies would be low if they are still ill
6 high numbers in london and ny probably due to ethinicity and how heavily hit the area is
7 not sure of ethinocity of lombary for eg but it didnt hit rome as hard
8 will have only been when say paris and madrid were hit that it would start to be noticed. (Also geographically obviously everyone nyc and london getting less sun than europe.
9 you could suppose that slightly overweight kids/teens are outside less but also they need higher vit d due to excess weight
10 wonder too if blood sugar on a 30bmi teenager might also be high
11 us and USA probably have more overweight kids than in europe?

Has anyone seen any reports of this in eg Spain, Italy, France?

Yes, there have been reports from France and Italy. Mentioned it in the NYT article.