The newspapers have changed their tune this morning

[Ifeel1000yearsold]

Just that really. Headlines now saying lockdown until June. Very different from yesterday’s headlines.

I think there are too many loose lips in government, they seem to float ideas quietly and gauge the reaction. The government handling of everything from PPE, testing right through to communication has been terrible.

Based on not reading a load of trashy red tops, that's the message that has been coming from government, but including a few gradual tweaks (possibly on a weekly basis) to what "lock down" has meant up until now, and continuing to use whatever data is available to inform the decisions
Exactly, and same - the message has been consistent in the updates.
Some of the papers on the other hand have just been printing whatever the hell they like with no basis in fact whatsoever.

Other countries have been far far stronger with their rules and strategy. There is a reason sadly why we have the highest death rates within Europe.

Jus to be boringly pedantic. We have the highest deaths in Europe. We don't have the highest death rates.

@SmileEachDay
Probably.

@Sunshinegirl82
Yes the messaging has been awful. Little surprise many people are effectively making their own minds up re. Risks and behaviour.

The government says don’t compare numbers between countries. Ok, I’ll ignore the high UK numbers - but you’ve still been shit. From poor and confusing messaging, to being slow to lock down, to not enough /out of date PPE, to testing fiascos, etc. The incompetence shines through without even need for global comparisons.

Apparently the high density of people per square mile is why are figures are so high.
Which makes far more sense, I mean how can you compare are figures to a country that has a population ten times smaller than us?

@flyingbuttress43
We are not far off the highest death rates at all given most estimates put us v.likely over 50,000+ deaths. We are highest 5 in the world without question. Probably highest 3 and climbing. It’s been a shambles, and we lack the excuse of Italy which was the first in Europe to be under siege (ie, before that there was the “perhaps it won’t hit Europe too badly” mentality ). Italy should have out paid to that.
Globally, the British response is viewed as shambolic - easily on a par with the US.

Just to be boringly pedantic. We have the highest deaths in Europe. We don't have the highest death rates.

Not yet. But we have our top people on the case. Come back next week and see what Britain can do when it really puts it's mind to it.

@mummmy2017
Germany managed well enough. Look at the population density in Chinese cities. Singapore. Japan. The population density of Athens is many times that of London. Copenhagen is higher than London. Did the British government only just discover that London, Machester/Birmingham were heavily populated? There will always be excuses for those who want them.

Cam77, look at all the cities that have packed bus , tube and train systems.
We seem doomed which ever way this was played.
The fact this virus hides for upto two weeks, means no one is safe, even when we do come out of lockdown.

I agree the press have been a disgrace. The daily briefing never said restrictions would be lifted . They have been clear . A plan will be set out that’s all .

The newspapers just want headlines and to jump on the criticism bandwagon before they know the facts .

I am sick to death of the fact they are not being held accountable , because people are reading the headlines , getting confused , or just making their own interpretation up .

I think the media are responsible for a lot at the moment . This is a time we should be pulling together , not telling lies and spreading misinformation.

In a way thank goodness for the daily update because otherwise we would really be up shit creek even more than we are.

Belgium has by far the worst death rate although I suppose we could still catch them up

The cynic in me wonders if the powers that be have managed to sate their alpha male libidos, and are now happy to lockdown again.

Maybe 5 weeks is how long a top politician can go without an "ego" massage ?

There are numerous factors to consider, eg, population density, time spent in areas of high transmission, numbers of people travelling to and from different areas of high transmission.
All the various factors can combine synergistically to multiply each other's effects.

I agree this may be gratifying the egos of authoritarians but those egos are also very concerned about economic collapse

Belgium has by far the worst death rate although I suppose we could still catch them up

I think that clinches it. Whatever your politics on this matter, whatever your personal situation, I think it's clear that the UK simply cannot come below Belgium. For anything. For the sake of national pride, we must get out. We must get out now. We must get out now and shake pepper in each others faces till we sneeze the UK to #1. Does Eurovision mean nothing ? Did she die in vain ?

I agree this may be gratifying the egos of authoritarians but those egos are also very concerned about economic collapse

@Cam77

But I do think that is because a lot of people are ignoring the rules .

And perhaps we should have had full lockdown like italy and spain although their figures are high as well .

But can you imagine the outcry if we had full lockdown ?

Also I agree the comparison with other countries is still unhelpful not just because of population density but also because we are now including deaths outside the hospital environment and we don’t know if that’s the case for for example Italy and Spain .

It would be interesting to see a chart with a percentage against population and population density and a note of how deaths are being reported .

And can we trust other countries to have been truthful in their reporting ?

I did see a report that in New York about 67% of cases were occurring in people shielding at home . Which either means they were breaking the rules or picked it up in supermarkets or out on daily exercise . Unless we are going to record indicators like this then we are still a bit in the dark tbh .

peole saying lokdown over and not social distancing have missed the point and i fear thats what will happen

even if lockdown ends social distancing will be here a long time but if theyre not clear and the papers post the opposite then people are just going to go back to normal

@B1rdbra1n

I think strangley enough belgium has a high population density ?

And New York and London have a similar population density but New York deaths are much higher than London’s?

So it does depend on how the figures are reached and how you compare them .

Also the age spread of the population is very relevant .

Serendipity,
puff the magic hater puts it very well!
If things are allowed to unravel too far there will be no going back, existing structures of power may never recover
They will do everything they can to stop that happening.

Raab reminded me of a new nervous school prefect yesterday!

Not that many people will sit through the daily briefing. Most people have iphones. News alerts ping all day, flashing up single line headlines. Very easy to see how people pick up on what they think is the direction of travel from those headlines. Particularly when a lot of people are trying to figure out how to plan for their work, business, childcare, finances, income....

The idea of govt taking a 'we're their leader, which way did they go?' approach by floating multiple confusing messages and seeing what rises to the surface is something to hang on to that is only slightly more comforting than that they just have not the faintest clue, they have awful PR and communication skills, no realisation that they need to sort out the press and redirect misinformation quickly because fucking unprecedented pandemic, and that essentially they couldn't organise a piss up in a brewery.

NO mention of schools in that plan from Wales at all, guessing that means September (even then will be difficult)

for instance just had a text off my dsis saying oh i heard from monday we can meet as long as its outside

i wasnt being clever ijust said lets wait and see what boris says-i know she read it in a paper

Just for the record - we do not actually know WHO has the highest death rates in Europe as the criteria for reporting and counting differs.
We are also a very small island with a disproportionately high population, and probably half of that landmass is rural with sparse population.

We can look to Germany and applaud their capabilities, but that doesn't necessarily equate to poor governance or decision making.

We could have stockpiled lots of PPE, only to discover it was the wrong PPE.
We might have spent 100's of millions on planning for a pandemic only to suffer a horrific number of terrorist attacks, and the public would say 'you were warned!, why didn't you invest in counter terrorism?'

All nations face a number of threats, all with warnings and worst case scenarios. Most don't happen, some happen to a lesser extent than predicted, and some more so.

I honestly don't think this was going to be easy for any government to cope with. Generally I think they've handled it reasonably well and professionally, but it's not perfect, and was never going to be.

A lack of investment in the NHS is fair comment, but so are some woeful inefficiencies within the NHS.
A lack of investment in PPE could be argued, but the moment we can't afford a scanner in a hospital, folks would question why millions of pounds of PPE was lying in warehouses, expiring use by dates, or the wrong type, or wrong size etc (some PPE needs to be specifically fitted to a person, i.e. 'face fitted' masks)