To think that this is one of the first crisis to affect the MC more than the WC?

[Makinitrain]

Note; I'm not talking about actually getting Coronavirus but living and surviving in lockdown.
WC here so maybe I'm getting it wrong. My dd goes to school in a pretty affluent school in our city. I grew up not far away in a rough council estate. I have a mixture of both types of people on my SM.
WC seem to be either key workers or furloughed. Most are semi enjoying home schooling, lots have both parents home but aren't expected to still be doing work. Self employed are panicking but hope to be in receipt of government grants. Non WC's life haven't really changed except they don't have to do the school run. I'm noticing there's more kids walking in the countryside than usual, more family's going on bike rides.
MC (in my experience) usually have both parents doing full time, full on jobs, at present most are working from home. They also really value education so it's hurting them to have to use screens so much in order to work. Both parents stressed about the future, possible redundancies.
Obviously there are thousands of people that don't fit into these examples but could this be the first crisis in which having some money doesn't actually make things any easier?

@woodpidgeons I'm sorry that you're struggling and I really have a lot of empathy. The reason people are on benefits is more or less just luck. I'm on tax credits, I got a promotion, lost my tax credits, I'm worse off now.
I'm very sympathetic to families where both parents are working very stressful full time jobs from home with children. I think that's very stressful, as stressful as being on UC in a flat with young children? I'm bit sure, they're both awful.
I have a lot of sympathy for both sides.

My neighbours don't work and have a council house with a huge garden. I do wonder who is judging who at this point. I'm shouting 'yes yes DD I will play just after this email, mummy is just trying to take notes on a Skype call, sorry Dr Kennet what did you say, yes darling I will certainly play Sylvanians just after this call, where is daddy?'
But then, they start smoking weed at 10 am and they never let their children in the garden.

I think whoever has more money and an equitable division of household labour is doing better, which is the case whenever life gets challenging.

Dh and I are very middle class. We might be both still working full time (me from home with dc), but we’re both still making plenty of money. I’m only working about 20 hours a week of my normal ft professional job. I’m still getting paid my full time salary. Dh is self employed and sales are down a bit. But we are certainly still taking home at least £6000 a month, but with fewer expenses to pay for (no nursery, no commuting).

I can’t imagine we are having a harder time of it than key worker friends making a household income of a 1/3 of that, or friends who currently out of work.

No. WC have it far worse.

I'm confused. Having read definitions on MN before of WC/MC I thought it wasn't to do with money and you couldn't ever move from wc to mc by earning more? You're born that class?

And the tech vs wooden toys etc. My ds goes to an expensive private school that only very high earners would be able to pay for. (I didn't have this kind of education myself.) Laptops are compulsory and iPads used in lessons. The kids all bring phones to school.

Actually OP you are allowed to use a cleaner.

My MP sent an email round in the week stating that you can use a cleaner just obey social distance guidelines.

Plus where I live the people who live in flats aren't necessarily WC.

Plus the flats are all completely different. Some have their own private gardens, others have communal gardens, some have private balconies and some have absolutely no outside space. However we are within walking distance from lots of green spaces so the people in flats with communal gardens with communal play equipment taped off can still easily walk to a green area.

@squishybabyfeet in the UK it depends on birth and/or education. So premiership footballers will nearly always be working class regardless of their income, but teachers are middle class due to their education.

but I do notice when I go round to peoples houses, the WC have tablets, MacBooks, phones everywhere. Yet in my dd's school they're very tech phobic, it's all wooden toys and no screens till they're 12 etc

Yeah you might want to look up the prices of wooden toys, it'll be Grimms and Ostheimer

Nope. Absolutely not. I think it will affect the working class (might be defined nowadays as who don't have the kind of jobs that can easily be done from home, some specialist things like surgery excepted). At the moment, more MC people are being expected to work. So they're more in communication with their employee, less likely to be furloughed, and possibly more affected by closure of nurseries (if both parents working long hours) and loss of nannies. But after the pandemic is over their lives will largely return to normal. Many of the people currently not going to work will soon discover that their jobs no longer exist, mortgage holidays are over, and banks won't lend readily without a 40% + deposit.

Also MC children more likely to be receiving home education. So the education gap will widen.

So I'd say that the economic damage will be more severe to the WC (assuming that term still has rough descriptive power) but it's also been much more concealed. To the extent that the government has wilfully concealed it via scaremongering and the false security of furlough, it's a disgrace.

@Charley50

If you live in an area of London where nearly everyone has a nice big garden, that isn’t just a middle class area, it is exceptionally affluent as most Londoners live in flats. Also statistically, having a device per family member is not the normal. Most middle class Londoners are not in the idyllic circumstances you describe.

@NotAnotherUserNumber - well, not everyone in my area has an enormous garden, some have small gardens and some of us live in flats with communal gardens, or no garden if a top floor converted flat, but basically it is a naice predominantly middle class area. And yes most people by secondary school age have their own PC or laptop to do their homework on.

“Could this be the first crisis in which having some money doesn't actually make things any easier?”

No. There are things I would normally throw money at where that’s no longer possible (dental treatment for example) and where money is no longer an advantage. There’s still a lot my children particularly are missing out on. We’ve lost a lot from pension pots etc.

But broadly speaking, like hell is my family, with secure income (as far as that’s ever possible), a mortgage free house, savings, garden, piles of toys, craft materials and education resources, fast broadband, more devices than people, an educational background that allows us to support our children’s learning, car, weeks worth of food in the kitchen and hundreds of other advantages having the same experience as someone on a low income, insecure housing and all the rest that comes with, bluntly, no money. What a ridiculous idea. This situation still absolutely sucks, money or not, but both now and in the future as the economy changes after this, I’d rather be in our situation. There’s years, and a lot of financial pain, still to come before this is over with.

It's down to outgoings versus incoming and what sector you work.

If you are public sector you are pretty OK. But public sector work doesn't generate income. It supports society.

If you are private sector of any kind you are much more exposed (but with some exceptions). This is where the economy is driven.

In terms of working class versus middle class its definitely true that middle class tend to be in jobs more able to work from home purely because they are white collar jobs. But you also have a considerable number of self employed and contractors in the middle class who haven't had quite the same levels of income support in comparison to their normal outgoings (larger homes = larger bills and bigger mortgages), thus they might get in deep shit very quickly although they might not currently as close to the breadline as those on lower incomes.

If you are middle class you tend to have better terms in your job (things like sick pay and pension) and less likely to be on zero hours contacts.

Tbh I think it's a bit like comparing apples and pears.

There are lots of working class who are facing being first to lose jobs after furlough ends and if they are still working tend to be more exposed to Covid-19. But there are plenty of middle class who will stand to lose everything - their business, their home, their community / friends (as they are forced to move to cheaper areas). And others who will be just fine and might even do quite well out of it.

Overall what will happen is a shrinking of the middle class and even greater economic inequality, with those at the very bottom worst affected. So many of both the wc and mc are going to be utterly stuffed including some who have had up to now very comfortable lives indeed.

One of the people I know who is most in trouble has a house worth about a million and a half but the business is now worthless and they can't pay the mortgage and since he has a chronic degenerative illness his long term earning potential and security for the family which he'd built up is going to be completely wiped out. He's already in his 50s but his youngest is still just 4. I can't see a happy ending for them.

To be fair, a million and a half would last about three lifetimes quite happily in my neck of the woods, so I can't feel too much sympathy.

Though as I've just read more thoroughly, not if it's a mortgage!

You're more likely to die of Covid if you're poor.

I don't see that as having it easier.

No way do the middle class have it harder. I was widowed last year so I’m on my own and I’m the only working adult in the house. I’m not furloughed but because I have savings I’ve been able to afford to voluntarily take a pay cut to enable me to support homeschooling. I feel lucky o have a job because it’s good for my mental health to be busy, I would hate to be on furlough. I don’t think my job is at risk but if it is then I’ve the luxury of savings until I find a new one and I don’t worry because a new job will probably pay more. Apart from a some teacher friends who only go into school once every 3 weeks and some friends who are doctors, all consultants, we don’t know any key workers. Our friends are not generally putting themselves on the front line

I have a house, and yes a cleaner, a garden, tech for each and every one of us to use while working. I can buy food without worrying about the cost and bring it home in my car avoiding public transport. My children have a garden and if they leave the house they have safe and pleasant streets to walk along. They talk to their friends on unlimited broadband and their school provides them with a good imitation of their timetable.

Their biggest problem is what’s for dinner and the printer is too slow.

No way do we have it hard. It’s a small blip in our lives. We are hugely lucky.