To think that this is one of the first crisis to affect the MC more than the WC?

[Makinitrain]

Note; I'm not talking about actually getting Coronavirus but living and surviving in lockdown.
WC here so maybe I'm getting it wrong. My dd goes to school in a pretty affluent school in our city. I grew up not far away in a rough council estate. I have a mixture of both types of people on my SM.
WC seem to be either key workers or furloughed. Most are semi enjoying home schooling, lots have both parents home but aren't expected to still be doing work. Self employed are panicking but hope to be in receipt of government grants. Non WC's life haven't really changed except they don't have to do the school run. I'm noticing there's more kids walking in the countryside than usual, more family's going on bike rides.
MC (in my experience) usually have both parents doing full time, full on jobs, at present most are working from home. They also really value education so it's hurting them to have to use screens so much in order to work. Both parents stressed about the future, possible redundancies.
Obviously there are thousands of people that don't fit into these examples but could this be the first crisis in which having some money doesn't actually make things any easier?

@hopeishere show me one council house where there is not iPad per family member! That may be an exaggeration but I do notice when I go round to peoples houses, the WC have tablets, MacBooks, phones everywhere. Yet in my dd's school they're very tech phobic, it's all wooden toys and no screens till they're 12 etc. Our school emails work out but there's no online learning, it's usually 'make a bug hotel' or 'design a flag.'

A tablet is not the same as a laptop and that is necessary (or at least much better) for senior school work that is definitely more than "make a bug hotel"!!

@Makinitrain you mention your mum twice.

How is she furloughed, but her and your dad usually work and she is on UC?

Or is your second one not your mum?

I have nowhere, where I sit. I have always considered myself WC. Apparently dads job means we were MC. Dbro went to university, I didn't. I believe university used to (if it isn't now) considered a MC marker.

But I have the well paid professional job and he is a sahp. He wife has a decent normal job. Is he MC?

My dp is definitely WC. Manual job and has been made redundant.

Am I MC and he WC? At the moment I am working from home, he is watching my kids and doing everything in the house. The kids 9 plus so don't need constant supervision.

We are fine. I have never really considered what class I am.

Makinitrain what are you talking about?

I dont know anyone who is working class where everyone has a tablet.

Most people have gone out and got laptops for school work to be done at home.

OP housing depends very much on where you live. South East here, and yes, WC people are predominantly living in flats.

To afford a house with a decent sized garden here, you need a very reasonable income. I’m not naive enough to think that everyone is lucky enough to have decent outside space.

you can't get a nanny or a cleaner at this time.

There was a thread on here two days ago where lots of posters were saying their cleaners still come in.

Also my friends still have their nanny coming.

@Peggysgettingcrazy where did I mention my mum?

Well the mc have always valued education and it’s instilled in their kids so they’re happily getting on with their home schooling.
They still some extra curricular activities like music lessons and tutors as many of them have gone on line.
When their children use screens, it’s often for educational apps. They’re always reading plenty of books too.

where did I mention my mum?

Sorry I thought you were talking about your family.

I see these are random examples. As you just said 'mum' I thought you meant your mum.

I expected the second example to be your sister or someone else.

@TwelveSocks woah woah woah, who said that? What absolute twaddle!

I'm not sure, mc family here, I'm a teacher, Dh furloughed. We've a garden a couple of laptops, a spare room and decent wifi. Also savings which have reduced or anxiety about dh job insecurity.

I think that as ever the poorest are struggling the most. Those with less space, with poor health, with less resources.

I think that maybe this is affecting some mc people quite badly, but probably not disproportionately compared to WC.

Just going from your first post, I'd say you couldn't be more wrong.
I live in a middle-class area in London. Nearly everyone has a lovely big garden, WiFi, each child their own device, big big parks, and while the parents may be WFH, they still have time and money to make nice lunches, talk about school work etc.

I work in a WC area in London. The young people are often doing their homework on a phone, they often don't have WiFi, many live in flats with no outdoor space, and are choosing not to go out at all, for fearful reasons. They don't have much spare cash and their parents are currently struggling financially.

So no, I don't think that MC are having a worse covid experience.

I wonder if this might be a question of perception about what a good and bad experience actually is at the moment.

So, at the moment, some (and notice I carefully say some, rather than all) of the so-called WC are enjoying lockdown. If they are working at home for the first time, but not having to do much or if they are furloughed and getting possibly full pay for no work and don't feel their job is insecure, they might be 'enjoying' it and feeling like its a bit of a holiday, if they don't have family they are worried about or know people with Covid. They might be doing a bit of home schooling or not too worried about losses in education in this period in a more formalised getting through the curriculum sense. They might just be thinking about the here and now and not seeing potential longer term difficulties ahead.

However, lots of the WC in the position mentioned above are finding now is a bad time and are very aware that worse is round the corner for many of them. So, those who are furloughed are vulnerable to job loss or job reduction in future. We know that those with less advantage are seeing the educational gap widening. WC are less likely to have a big savings buffer and also to be in the jobs which get called back into work sooner as working from home is harder.

I think it's a perception of perhaps some WC that MC are finding it harder. So some look at MC still doing full time hours and juggling childcare and education and think this is far worse than being furloughed and much harder work. The people with this perception generally think that working longer hours must mean life is worse, but are seeing it from a viewpoint that doing the minimum is the best thing. Instead the MC who are perhaps working harder than normal to fit everything in, might not be hugely enjoying some elements, but also are willing to do it, knowing they have job security and in the longer fterm they will be in a much smaller stronger position. Yes, they might stress more about the loss of active progress through a defined curriculum or through the extra curricular activities path, but that doesn't mean they are having a worse experience. Knowing you can go in the garden and when the lockdown lifts a little you can have some holidays and have your cleaner back and life can return to normal a bit, counts for a lot, plus job and home security is key to feeling okay as you look to the future.

So I think Op is perhaps taking the WC perception I attributed to some WC at the start. She's seeing the MC working away hard and struggling with the juggle and deciding that means they have been hit harder, whilst she perceives that many WC are enjoying being furloughed and having more relaxed time at home at the moment, without really considering the underlying psychological position the 2 groups find themesleves in and essentially which has most longer term security.

There are very very few things which don't hit the affluent less hard. Being affluent allows you to weather the storm. This will be no different. It won't stop there being a storm and hard times for lots of people, but when you lose your job, if you own your home, have a big buffer of savings behind you and some high level skills a nd qualifications, you can often manage while things are hard and get back on your feet fairly fast.

It's affected affluent people as well as the poor for a change but I still think the working class are affected in much higher numbers and in terms of the lockdown itself have had to "survive" in far more difficult circumstances.

You CANNOT be serious OP. My god you are blinkered by MC priviledge.

Who are the people putting their lives at risk for minimum poxy wage in all this? The working class: the cleaners, the supermarket workers, the bus drivers and the carers. Who are people who have the least flexibility to WFH - the working class.

Those members of the WC who have been furloughed or made unployed through this crises will also struggle more. These are the people who were struggling to make ends meet on their full wage, let alone 85 per cent of their previous wage or universal credit!

Who are going to be the people who struggle to adapt to the job market when all this is over and the economy is fucked? Once again, the working class.

Who's children are going to suffer the biggest impact on their educational attainment throughout all this? The WC. And trust me, this isn't because they value education any less than the MC's, because through circumstances, they are more likely to lack both financial, temporal and emotional resources to ensure their children get the educational support they need.

And the point about screen time OP. Surely by now you have realised that the ability to enforce this in the first place was a symptom of your middle class priviledge. Now the shit has really hit the fan, such concerns have had to fall by the wayside haven't they?

What I can get on board with is the idea that the MC have seen the greatest change to their circumstances. Perhaps the WC seem to be getting on with things / taking it all in their stride because they are used to hardship; they have less to lose in the first place. You cannot compare loss of middle class priviledge to this.

It strikes me as very similar to wartime. The WC are generally the cannon fodder. Although they are thanked for their great efforts in going to the front, it is they that take the bullets and die. The care home workers who are suffering and dying and not generally the MC. Those working in supermarkets and being put on the frontline are not the MC. Yes, there are 'officers' of the army out there too, like the Doctors, but smaller numbers.

Who will stay at home longer because their white collar and professional jobs can be done from home more easily - the MC. Which businesses are most prone to folding - hospitality and entertainment, staffed by minimum wage employees who have been saved by furlough for a couple of months, but ultimately are more likely to see their jobs go. Or in big organisations which have to make some cuts, it will be the less skilled and less essential to the operation staff who go,neven though they are paid less.

It comes down to the discussion that has happened frequently about whether furloughed workers are lucky gits. Lots of people have said they are jealous because they are still working. It's such a short term view that fails to see the bigger picture. Having a short-term easier time (and obviously lots of WC people aren't having this living in cramped flats or with reduced money) doesn't mean you've had a better experience or less impact overall - the whole impact hasn't happened yet and much of the impact is still to come?

Oh good god, I've just skimmed the whole thread and Makinnatrain is bemoaning the ability to get a cleaner and a nanny! This thread has really hit peak Mumsnet.

People are dying and struggling to keep a roof over their head FFS.

It strikes me as very similar to wartime. The WC are generally the cannon fodder.

So true, my dads dad was MC, he had lovely handwriting and read Latin. When he got conscripted in WW2 they made him an officers clerk. He had lots of amusing stories to tell about the war. All his 7 brothers also survived the war.

Mums dad was WC, he never talked about the war even years later.

@WombatChocolate very well put.

I dont think it's a class thing as just personal circumstances. We are both furloughed here but have more than enough to pay the bills and jobs are relatively secure. We have a big garden for the kids and endless technology and gadgets for them to home school. No idea what class I fall in to?

@Chwaraeteg you must have missed the bit where I said that I'm currently a band 3 admin in an NHS hospital. I was sat next to our hospitals first COVID 19 patient for nearly two hours on the Friday before he was diagnosed on the Sunday. So don't say I haven't put myself on the front line.

Working classes always get the shit end of the stick. Always have, always will.

Don't like discussions about class.

However this should not be used as a reason to cut UC. UC is already brutal. I'm fact the government swiftly made a few changes to it as soon as the middle classes started losing jobs and having to make claims. They TEMPORARILY made UC housing rates actually reflect rents (usually they don't and people have to pay the deficit out of their meagre food money), they increased allowances by £20 a week. They suspended most sanctions and 'third party debt deductions' which most on UC have money taken to give to debts like electric etc. All this is temporary and clearly to make it look slightly more palatable to the millions 'I'm alright jacks' who now have to claim.

I am not sure who is struggling more. All classes are struggling I suppose.

For myself, I am definitely working class!!

We live in a flat with no garden for ourselves.

Home Schooling is difficult because I have little education to be able to assist DC, and we don't have a printer or any keyboards, just tablets. I do care a lot about their education, my DC go to good schools out of area I fought for placing requests, but I still don't think schools should reopen yet as it's not known enough about the risks.

I don't have a car.

I don't have a washing machine as it broke before lockdown and couldn't afford to replace (on UC as I'm too ill to work since this year, was in retail for many years previously which I loved). Was using laundrette but it closed so all washing even sheets has to be done by hand in a big bucket in the bath.

My freezer is 2 tiny drawers, one broken, so whilst I usually buy fresh daily, having to rely on tinned and dried foods which are too salty and the meat more expensive.

I don't discount the middle class suffering either though, I guess they probably have more to lose if they lose jobs, as in big mortgages, cars, big drop in lifestyles. So it's maybe a more noticeable change for them. Maybe that's what you mean OP??

This should not be used to make the poor pay for more years of austerity though. Raise taxes a bit, go into debt as all countries will be doing. I hope they don't use this as a reason to cut UC further, as UC , honestly, it's already horrendous. Especially for single people with no dependents and the disabled. I know a young lady sex working because she gets less than £45 a week to live on after rent and council tax. That's her full allowance.

I'm not sure I'd consider myself part of any class, but as we are two FT working professionals I guess I fall into the group you think are more affected.

We aren't badly affected by any stretch of the imagination. We work from home, our DD is left to her own devices with education. She's smart and knows what she needs to do and is wise enough to decide whether she wants to do schoolwork or not. She gets help when she needs it but we're pretty much able to get on with it. We've got space for three of us to work at a desk with a computer each and a garden for us to sit out in on sunny days.

We've seen a reduction of 10% in our income because we've both been given a paycut, but we still have enough to pay our bills and put some money into savings which will protect us if either of us are made redundant at any point.

There are a whole bunch of people I know who are in a lot worse of a situation than we are, lower wage earners who have lost jobs, or who are facing redundancy after furlough ends. Struggling to make ends meet. Living in small houses or flats with no space to work. Having to share a computer so not everyone can do school or work. No outdoor space to get outside.

Anyone who thinks the MC are worse affected need to check their privilege.