Furlough to be wound down in July

[Alex50]

We all need to be getting back to work or our jobs and livelihoods are going to disappear.

www.theguardian.com/world/2020/may/05/rishi-sunak-preparing-to-wind-down-furlough-scheme-from-july

@kirinm - totally agree - Chancellor has to end the scheme sensibly at the right time. Has to be eased out properly or we are looking at mass unemployment

@juicy0 given the number of older students who will remain in the community this summer (who can't go travelling or would normally be working casually for the hospitality or tourism industries) maybe they could be paid to look after younger children. I can think of several family friends with older teenagers who I could approach and I'm sure they'd be glad of the opportunity to earn some money before September when they head to uni or sixth form
In doing this, the number of trained and qualified childcare staff are going to need to be claiming furlough or unemployment benefits. I’m sure my entire sector will be Thankful for that.
If childcare is needed, the best people to provide that care is not students trying to earn a bit of spare cash in the holidays, but those who are actually trained to do the job.

FWIW, I’m a childminder, I haven’t even been able to apply for my 80% self employed grant yet and when I do, it is actually far less than 80% of what I would have earned this year as My fees have gone up by 50p per hour, per child and I now have more children on my books.

I am desperate to get back to work as normal so I can try to get my business on track, the last thing I need is people choosing the 16 year old down the road for childcare over me.

People with certain health conditions and over a certain age are going to discriminated against now i’m afraid. I do wonder in some ways the virus is very conveniently getting rid of the sick and old from society.

@Alex50
What is there to wonder about? Of course the sick and elderly are more susceptible to this virus (as they would be to any virus) it's basic science there's nothing convenient about it.

However I do think it should make us reconsider UC, people who lost their jobs and had to wait weeks for a pittance in January were just as deserving as those of us losing jobs /furloughed now on far more generous terms.

Yup.

I think this could have gone on a bit longer if so many companies hadn't massively took the piss tbh. As usual though, if the system allows for someone to take the piss, some will take the piss..its usual. And the government didn't really have time to think beyond 'we have to do something' so they cannot really be blamed. I find the lack of anger at large companies taking advatage of this scheme bizarre though, given the usual frothing at benefit claimants who claim as single people while having a boyfriend who stays a few nights a week and such (thats actually allowed too I think). But I guess thats the same as..people kicking off at poor people claiming, when ignoring tax evasion too so again, its normal

Anyway, its obvious furlough cannot conitnue in its current form. Its also obvious that the country has to get some normality back soon. Some type of furlough is going to have to keep going for hospitality workers and such, as they will surely be the last to be back at work so of course they need support. Until schools go back also, there needs to be something in place. I think that whats quite likely to happen is schools technically 'open' fairly soon, but only kids of workers in certain jobs go back at a time, so furlough ends, your kids go back, so you go back to your job in some form. Of course theres not only childcare thats making this have to happen, but I imagine its a big part of it. DH is furloughed as..every other area shutting down has made his job impossible, rather than childcare issues. But hopefully, as areas go back, that would be eased too.

Its interesting to see reactions to this among those I know. For weeks now, those I know who are currently furloughed have been saying its way too dangerous to go back, noone can go back to work or the government are basically commiting murder for the sake of the economy, noone will be safe until vaccine so furlough for a year+ (!!!) and such. Now are in 'government are heartless bastards who dont care about death!!!' mode, but come a week or so it will be business as usual. It realy does seem that a (significant, among those I know) minrity of furlughed workers are simply trying to keep the free ride going. I get it, especially for those who barely see their kids and have no holidays. DH is one of those. But he is looking forward to going back and says it cannot come quick enough, so seems to be polar opposite to the 'I can drink all day and do fuck all after a lie in, long may it conitnue' folk.

Oh, something else DH said that might make it possible for furlough to go on a bit longer for those who do actually need it..he reckons that hes actually been better off over these past weeks, even on 80% wage. As commuting and such are removed from his costs, he reckons probably a fair few hundred up..not an insignificant amount. So maybe, those who really need it..could take a little lower than 80% if it keeps it going a bit longer? This might not work for some though, as some are literally living on a shoestring regardless of wage, once cost of living is taken into account so even the 20% down will be an issue I guess.

In short, its obvious furlough in its current form cannot conitnue, and it seems many who are furloughed really do not need to be, and some actually seem to be there through choice (who should be the first to go back tbh, ridiculous). Anecdotally. 2 people I know begged their employer to furlough them as apparently they were 'scared' Got furloughed, and now it seems one unlucky guy is doing 3 jobs to cover theirs. While they sit at home whinging about how furlough has to keep going indefinitely else the government is evil!

So it cannot go on, but there has to be something for thoxse who simply cannot work at the moment. Its not exactly fair to shift them onto UC as..their work being told to shut down is the reason they cannot work. So something has to be there to support them. But this should be quite strict I think. Not like this scheme has been, allowing so many loopholes.

@Maryann1975 of course that would be the ideal in a normal situation but we are a long way from normal. Whilst nurseries and childminders are unable to open though surely it's a better alternative than people not being able to work because they don't have child care. Many of the teenagers I know have younger siblings and are quite capable of supervising school age children for the day. I was merely suggesting it as an alternative for those parents who are keen to get back to work.

What’s more worrying is what if there is nothing to go back to, if you are furloughed you’re more likely to be made redundant than staff they have kept on. Your employer is managing without you, why would they want to take you back? Like I said there will be a queue of people waiting to fill any job role, that’s why I want to get back ASAP.

I am getting increasingly angry at the whole situation. The government has condemned vast swathes of the workforce to unemployment with no back up after SEISS and furlough end. Lockdown needs to be lifted.

They’re will be thousands of people queuing up for one job, any job, even minimum wage jobs, employers will have there pick of candidates.

Its been almost that for a while already. Even with apparently the 'lowest numbers of people unemployed' ( ). FIL advertised a job a few months back, got over 150 applicants! 70 or so did not fit the job description but came anyway 'just to check' that they had to be a driver and was there not a way around it..etc. He felt awful. Many stated they were technically employed but on 0 hour contracts and had been given no work for a while. Thats how many people I know are actually, on 0 hour contracts, getting a few hours work some weeks, 60 hours over xmas, that kind of thing. Apparently those sanctioned do not show as uemployed too. Like hell do I believe the unemployment records were the lowest ever before this.

And it will be MUCH worse after this of course. Instead of 150 applicants for a 30 hour a week job in a little town, it will be 500 at least, if all these redundancies happen. And all these people fighting for that one job, will have the added stigma of being labelled as 'feckless and lazy' and told that UC is more than generous and allows them multiple holidays a year and widexscreen tvs..the usual trope. Maybe not for the first month when people feel bad for them, but guaranteed, it will come if they do not magic up a job within a few weeks, then they become a drain, like all other benefit claimants apparently are..

I just don't see how they can end furlough for industries that are simply not allowed to operate at all. DH would go back to work in a heartbeat but his industry is currently non existent and will be for a long time. Wjat the hell do we do? UC doesn't cover mortgages.

There is so much shot on this thread it's ridiculous.

• I am furloughed and if I want paid what I am I couldn't afford my rent or bills. I have no family I could live with so I would be homeless within several months.
• people on higher incomes spend in more toward the economy so they need to maintain a level of cash in order to start putting it back in as soon as possible. I'm not on a higher income btw; it's just a fact.
• the government has told childcare settings to close; if the government gave reassurance and incentives / told these companies etc to reopen, they would. I could then work. It's really simple. Those who can send their child to childcare or school, should.
• furloughed people aren't sitting on their arses. I am up at 5.30 and don't really sit down again until 7.30pm. I work much harder at home than I ever could at my job in my office.

Those who are shaming furloughed people are really shitty. Similarly those lockdown martyrs who have 12 kids and are still wfh and tell us all that we're lazy bastards are also shitty. We're all just trying to get through this as best as we can so just be fucking nice for crying out loud.

Furlough was always just kicking the issue into the long grass. Even if lockdown ended today many businesses simply don’t have the cashflow to sustain their employees. We’ve had no parity with the SEISS, not entitled to UC, grants have been restrictive for many, its business loans for directors or nothing. Large scale job losses in the next few months will be inevitable.

It's been said that 50% of the adult population is currently being supported by the state, which means that the other 50% are paying for it.

I paid for it too before I was furloughed thank you.

I have been lucky to be furloughed on 100%. I'm in a very small team and there was literally no work for me to do, and then nurseries were closed, so they picked me for furlough as I have childcare responsibilities.

As time goes on, im getting more and more worried about my job. There is no guarantee there will be work for me at the end of June as we're in the fundraising sector. We need people to get back into work and happy to support good causes again.

It's literally my dream job. I have an amazing boss, I work remotely, and I got to raise money for charities. If I lose my job, I will be gutted. I'm hoping that worse case scenario, they'll ask me to be part time. I'd be happy with that.

I can understand why the government wants to wind it down from July and cut the subsidy but I really think they're going to cause hardship if they lockdown measures aren't perfectly timed. I can imagine a lot of companies might just start laying off staff. But also, most people won't manage on only 60% of their wage and there is currently no obligation to top up!

furloughed people aren't sitting on their arses. I am up at 5.30 and don't really sit down again until 7.30pm. I work much harder at home than I ever could at my job in my office.

You are WFH then rather than furloughed I take it?

Also, in my post I did try to say it was not ALL furloughed people. But it seems a fair few of them among those I know, who seem quite happy being paid near full and doing nothing and conveniently, those seem to be the loudest and most persistant with the whole 'lockdown must continue for the sake of lives!!!' 'but furlough also must continue else unfair' post another pic of sunbathing in garden with can of strongow 'people are dying!!!' trope. Not all, by any means, but seemingly the majority among those I personally know. Maybe I just know more pisstakers than anyone else..its definitely possible. As I said DH is furloughed and cannot wait to get back, is actually quite concerned he wont be asked to go back at all as his whole industry is shut down and its hard to see an end to it, most other areas would need to go back first and be working properly again, before his will even begin to recover. He canot stand seeing those who ARE treating this as some kind of extended holiday. He said it was a nice change for the first week, as usually he doesn't see the kids before work, and sees them maybe an hour after and thats it..and was seing them all the time, also instead of getting up at 5am, got a lie in. But says that got stale way too quick and is now wanting to go back, both for something to do, and as worried that if he doesn't go back soon, there won't be a job to go back to..

Hes one of the 'lucky' ones really, as FIL could at a push create a job for him, once FIL is aable to reopen. Many are not in that situation. Plus, he doesn't want to work for FIL, hence gaining qualifications and such and working in a different area to start with! But given a option between that and no work at all..choice is obvious.

Alex50

I thought this too, but also now I'm considering if these companies with furloughed and wfh/still in work are unable to carry on, the whole lot will go.
Those who have continued working won't have a job anymore than the furloughed would.
There may be many businesses like this, hanging on by their teeth because the gov are bailing them out.
Once that money stops and companies are are their own, it will be interesting to see how many can continue.

It's been said that 50% of the adult population is currently being supported by the state, which means that the other 50% are paying for it.

Kindly feck off with that attitude

I'm 35, I've always worked apart from "time off" for university. Never been unemployed. Never claimed benefits. I may be furloughed but I'm still getting taxed on it.

I'm in my garden, and sat on my arse, I have no work, and it isn't my fault. However, at the time of furlough I was earning £250 a month as waiting on end of tour money.
So furloughed I get £190 something and dh/ our business tops it up to £250, as that's all we can afford now.
My dh continues to receive the min wage.
So, if a universal income comes in until we get on our feet again, I'm all for it.

I'm in my garden, and sat on my arse, I have no work, and it isn't my fault.

Of course its not your fault. Same as its not DHs fault. I don't really get why people are making out furlough is anything other than..being off work and getting paid (to some degree) though.

The ones I am very annoyed with and it IS their fault they 'have no work' (as they didn't want it) are people like the 2 women I know who literally pleaded with their bosses to be off as they were apparently 'terrified' they would get the virus and it was 'giving them anxiety'. there was work for them, one guy is now stuck doing his job and theirs. Whilst they (according to FB photos) have spent a few days in the crowded park, been to the beach (we live about 40 mins from nearest beach..) and been to a family BBQ. While so scared of the virus that thewy couldn't do their low risk job, of course While I don't think anyone 'deserves' redundancy, I do hope people like them are first to go. Rather than those who do genuinely want to work but can't. Also hope the guy currently doing their job is promoted at the end of all this, poor thing. And think their boss is ridiculous, doing what he did, but then putting it all onto one other worker..

Marrow

I totally agree with that one, I hope somebody sent the photo's to their boss.
I'd love to be working, my job is my life tbh. It isn't really a job apart from i get paid. So being off isn't bliss and we are really worried about not only losing work, but the changes to come might mean we are unable to return to the same line of work, it's all we've ever done.

We should never have even gone in to lockdown. Sweden is out of the worst of it and their economy is fine.

When Boris mentioned ‘herd immunity’ every one wanted to set him on fire. Now look at the mess we are in.

On another note - we’re past the peak, numbers are declining and the government are looking at closing the nightingale hospitals because no one needs to use them and they are empty.

Lift the lockdown

What are you expecting people on furlough to do? They aren't allowed to work and not allowed outside much. I too would be sat in the sunshine if I had nothing else to do.

I totally agree with that one, I hope somebody sent the photo's to their boss.

They (stupidly) have he guy whos taken over their jobs..on their FB list. So am quite sure it will have made its way to the boss! If not, theres plenty of people who like to stick their noses in..I just fume and anon post on forums about it instead! Which might make me as bad or something, IDK!

What are you expecting people on furlough to do? They aren't allowed to work and not allowed outside much. I too would be sat in the sunshine if I had nothing else to do.

Its not the sat in the sun thing. Its sitting in the sun, but also being extremely vocal about how lockdown should go on indefinitely else the government are evil and prioritising money over lives, and other such nonsense. Apparently furlough and lockdown should go on until a vaccine is found, which is clearly ridiculous. Tell them its unsustainable in its current form, and its 'evil bastard, deaths!!!!!' when you know fine well these people, if not doing nothing and getting wages, would be a bit more..sensible in what they say/want.

Again, not saying this is all. But it seems to be a fair few.

The opinion polls done, I do wonder what the results of those will be once its announced furlough is ending (or ending in its current form, which allows much abuse). I suspect that the 80% thinking lockdown should continue would be much lower..