Self-Employed HMRC update

[Snorkelface]

HMRC has added a few updates for the self employed grant scheme.

www.gov.uk/guidance/claim-a-grant-through-the-coronavirus-covid-19-self-employment-income-support-scheme

While HMRC will be contacting eligible claimants directly over the next couple of weeks with more specific details you can now see if you're eligible to claim and what date you'll be able to lodge your claim by using their on-line tool (about half way down their web page).

You'll need your UTR and NI number to do this and it will also give you the opportunity to set up your Gateway account if you don't already have one and to update your contact details. It's a good idea to set this up now as the website is likely to get very busy when it goes live on 13th May.

You can find both your UTR and NI number on your tax return. If you're setting up your Gateway at the same time you'll need to provide email/mobile details and you'll need to set up additional security measures to identify you using either security questions or drivers license details or your passport. The system can time out so it's a good idea to have all the details to hand.

HMRC are banning agents from filing on behalf of their clients
even though we have all of the information at our fingertips
and many of our clients use us because they are not computer literate.

Many Self Employed do not have their own gateway accounts

• the agent uses their own details

THe current delay to get a new account is around 4 weeks so they will miss their date to get a payment

Self employed people have to prove loss
Employers Furlough staff do not

it stinks

Self-employed people don't have to prove loss. They have to keep evidence in files that their business has been affected, presumably in case of an audit at some point, but they do not have to prove financial loss to access the money. It is available to anyone who is eligible. You can take it regardless of what your business is doing, but there are obviously ethical implications and the, granted small, risk that their accounts will be audited in the future and they will have to provide some evidence of their business being affected.

They have to keep evidence in files that their business has been affected
But Companies do not have to tick any such box when furlough applications are made

risk that their accounts will be audited in the future and they will have to provide some evidence of their business being affected
But that was not in the original announcement.
THe money is taxable income it is NOT up to the taxpayer to explain such
when companies do not have to

Companies are just as likely to be audited for furlough fraud to be fair, there's been plenty of discussion about companies claiming to have furloughed workers and claiming the grant while their employees are still actually working - and all it takes is one employee or ex-employee to report them for that to come to light - the potential for fraud has also been raised by journalists. And anyone can be audited at any time for anything if HMRC suspected foul play or just because. There's nothing different here. And if someone really hasn't been effected (both since March and going forwards) by the lockdown then they have the option to not claim.

Thanks so much OP for this thread - was just searching MN to find any threads by fellow SE people and there you were! Slightly surreal to think that people are starting to talk about the end of lockdown/furloughing etc before we've even received any help at all!

I have been earning money up until now with various freelance projects, but those are nearly all finishing and I haven't been able to get any new work yet. So I haven't suffered yet, but have nothing in the pipeline so will probably claim to take the pressure off the next couple of months while I search for work. Also hugely impacted in terms of looking for and actually doing work by having to do homeschooling as well.

Bandying the word "audited" about helps nobody.

HMRC carry out investigations. They do not audit.

The key point is that accountants who have all the numbers for their clients have been locked out of the Self Employment system

even though they and Bureaux were allowed to submit the Furlough claims for employers

which massively discriminates against people who may have already gone two months with no income
DEEPLY unfair

DH is self employed and his earnings have dropped by about half, would he be able to state that and claim 50% of average earnings or will they automatically pay 80%, does anyone know.

It's automatically 80%, you can't request certain figures.

They have to keep evidence in files that their business has been affected, presumably in case of an audit at some point, but they do not have to prove financial loss to access the money.

This is a bit baffling to me. All I might be able to produce as evidence that I've earned less in this period is my profit in my next tax return being lower than it has been for a while (which HMRC would by definition be able to see anyway!). If I do earn less

Thank you for this thread, I have put my details in. Good foresight about doing this part in advance, so the website is less busy!

@IntermittentParps Yes, it's really vague. A friend of mine asked their accountant, who basically said that in lieu of any objective criteria being set out, he couldn't foresee there being any issue, given they haven't published any concrete guidance on eligibility, so evidence could just be a note saying that you had to turn down X work or lost X contract or had to do childcare and couldn't take on a certain project. I doubt anyone will ever be asked for them anyway; I think the furlough scheme is what will attract the attention of investigators after this is over.

Scarf, I hope they don't ask! I don't have kids, so haven't had to turn down work –if anything, I'm losing/will lose work due to the industry having less work to send people. And the way I get offered work is so casual –I almost never get sent contracts. It would literally be like a note from your mum about PE saying 'I would have sent Parps 2/3/however many projects if it weren't for the virus', which doesn't mean anything...
I do think they're saying it largely to cover their own arses though and it won't really amount to anything.

Many Self Employed do not have their own gateway accounts

• the agent uses their own details

*THe current delay to get a new account is around 4 weeks so they will miss their date to get a payment*

Is this correct? why does it take so long to get the Gateway details from HMRC?

@IntermittentParps Well that's evidence enough! I don't think it needs to be anything formal or they would have set that out. I suspect it's just worded to try make people think before they claim.

Orangeblossom - it doesn't take long as long if you have email/mobile phone access. ListeningQuietly said they have some clients who aren't computer literate so that would take much longer to process. I don't know why HMRC have done it this way, there's going to be loads of people who usually use their accountants to file for them. However if you have your UTR and NI, an email address etc you can set it up on the spot using the link in the original post above. Just go to the section about eligibility and use the on-line tool. It will take you through the process.

Posted earlier to say my DP isnt eligible, according to the HMRC checker.

He’s been SE for 15 years, always done his tax returns, profit less than £50,000. Ticks all 3 boxes.

He’s a door to door salesman, so absolutely no way he could work at the moment. He’s SE but works with a business, who have temporarily had to close their doors. He’s not PAYE.

Really hope his request for review will be successful.

I am self employed and unable to work and it says I am not eligible...really worried!

Well I’m someways if it’s more than one of us getting rejected despite eligibility that makes me feel a bit better

snorkel
However if you have your UTR and NI, an email address etc you can set it up on the spot using the link in the original post above.
My Professional body has been testing it
and not is NOT instant at the moment for those setting up a new SA Gateway account
which they need to get the numbers for the system (3 years of declared SA302 income)

It is disgusting that the experienced people are not allowed to submit the claims

as they were for PAYE schemes

Does the claims include for people in Scotland or have they got a different database?

Yes, same for Scotland.

Scotland also has an additional hardship fund for newly self-employed people. If you are in Scotland, became self-employed after April 2019 and have been affected, you can apply to your local authority for a £2,000 grant.

findbusinesssupport.gov.scot/service/coronavirus/newly-self-employed-hardship-fund

The email states this about payment in case it helps....

"3. After we’ve received your claim and verified it, we’ll pay the money directly into your bank account within six working days."

ListeningQuietly - I set one up yesterday and it took minutes to do. I'm not sure we're talking about the same thing.

Snorkel
I hope you are right and that its simple as many of the tax clients who get me to do their returns have no internet access other than phones. They do not have printers. They do not read well.

It is ridiculous that agents cannot file on their behalf
as payroll bureaux were allowed to do