Self-Employed HMRC update

[Snorkelface]

HMRC has added a few updates for the self employed grant scheme.

www.gov.uk/guidance/claim-a-grant-through-the-coronavirus-covid-19-self-employment-income-support-scheme

While HMRC will be contacting eligible claimants directly over the next couple of weeks with more specific details you can now see if you're eligible to claim and what date you'll be able to lodge your claim by using their on-line tool (about half way down their web page).

You'll need your UTR and NI number to do this and it will also give you the opportunity to set up your Gateway account if you don't already have one and to update your contact details. It's a good idea to set this up now as the website is likely to get very busy when it goes live on 13th May.

You can find both your UTR and NI number on your tax return. If you're setting up your Gateway at the same time you'll need to provide email/mobile details and you'll need to set up additional security measures to identify you using either security questions or drivers license details or your passport. The system can time out so it's a good idea to have all the details to hand.

I had a letter from HMRC this morning telling me to go to the link in the OP.

@waterjungle we called HMRC this afternoon and they said he is infact ineligible. Its so stressful!

IFancyANamechange

Ah crap IFancyANamechange that's so hard for you. Do you mind me asking what it was that made him ineligible?

THe system does not say why it just says no
but (as per a couple of clients who then emailed me)
the answer will be obvious to your accountant
most likely the 50% rule and a part PAYE year
or the 50% rule and rental income

ListeningQuietly

We have been through the website like IFancyANamechange and have got the NOT ELIGIBLE message even though we know that DH meets the three main criteria. We have even used the formula HMRC gives as an example to calculate.

1 - His trading profits were 51,000 for one year but below that for the other two tax years and below again when worked out as an average.
2 - His has no non-trading income.
3 - He has submitted all the required tax returns
We cannot see why it is rejecting him and have asked for a review.
I am curious as to wether anyone that has been refused via the website has manage then been accepted after contacting HMRC personally?
Or if anyone realised that their refusal was correct and what error they made?

More than £50k in any one year makes you ineligible

www.gov.uk/guidance/how-hmrc-works-out-total-income-and-trading-profits-for-the-self-employment-income-support-scheme

just below "elgibilty"
£50,000 is OK
£50,001 is not not

ListeningQuietly
So it isn't an average profits over 3 years if one of those years is over 50,000? I'm beginning to feel a bit sick.......

ListeningQuietly
I think we misinterpreted what HMRC said below....

If you’re not eligible based on the 2018 to 2019 Self Assessment tax return, we will then look at the tax years 2016 to 2017, 2017 to 2018, and 2018 to 2019.

Sadly I think the trip wires are rather nasty

We haven't looked yet but have just started getting universal credits, so is it worth applying? Will they not just give with one hand and take with other?

The UC is not that much but neither would his pay out be. Don't want It to confuse tax for next year

LEM
THE SE grant does not involve running your savings right down so is better
but NOWHERE near as good as employees get
but its clear that they do not want it to be quick and simple

I can't see where it says more than £50,000 in any one year makes you ineligible, only that if you are not eligible based on the 18-19 return they'll then look at the two years prior.

Snorkey
I'm used to reading their site
over £50k is the deal breaker and cuts the roll back off
(i'll check with my Professional Body on it - they are up in arms at the moment)

My husband has been told he's eligible and he made over £50k in 2018/19 but the 2 years previous he made less so the 3 year average is under £50k?
We will see what happens when we apply on the 13th??

Minniemooblue - that was my understanding based on HMRC's eligibility detail below.............

'If you have traded for all 3 years we will first look at your 2018 to 2019 Self Assessment tax return. Your trading profits must be no more than £50,000 and at least equal to your non-trading income.

If you’re not eligible based on the 2018 to 2019 Self Assessment tax return, we will then look at the tax years 2016 to 2017, 2017 to 2018, and 2018 to 2019.'

Following this as my OH checked his last night and has a slot on the 14th for the next stage...

@Snorkelface
My understanding too. When we filled in the online eligibility checker it said he was eligible and could apply on the 13th.
Just keeping our fingers crossed it goes through.

minniemooblue You sound in a very similar position to us, this are the kind of return figures we were looking at and we got a no from the website so I guess we have to hope for an appeal.
Snorkelface That's how we have just read the definition. We can't see a straight disqualification because of profits exclusively in 18/19 returns?

@waterjungle sorry, typo in my message. I meant to say that intially the HMRC checker said ineligible, then after calling they said he is and to claim next week. You have to enter the details of the gov gateway account, which we tried to do and again it said ineligible. So we just need to wait and see next week

It must be tricky with UC as that is month to month so a large amount one month might mean missing that month's payment? I would check with them (UC) first

With tax credits it's different as it looks at your overall profit for the year rather than month to month

I have just found out the reason I am not eligible is because I have 2 rental properties that I don’t earn anything from and are for my retirement because I have no pension. I am gutted. Being self employed having a pension isn’t a good option because my income fluctuates so I can’t commit to monthly payment so invested in my rentals so I will be able to look after myself in my old age. I now have no income at all and am not allowed any help.just great!

I am so sorry for those of you who have been left by the wayside. Not that it helps you at all, it’s fucking crazy and sad.

I don’t really bother with paying attention to much to do with tax, I give my accountant the figures and he tells me what to pay. What I’m not clear on, is this increase in NI that Rishi ominously suggested when announcing the help for the SE? I currently pay Class 2 and Class 4 NIC, am I not paying as much as an employed person?

I also have a small PAYE job, which I pay basic rate (20% tax on everything I earn) on. I don’t earn enough there for NIC to be automatically take but all my earnings are declared and the NI contributions are decided on that.

Washy - I think there'll be a whole bunch of changes to self-employment tax and contributions (and employment status) coming at some point. There's issues over NI and IR35 and all the self employed who have missed out on the grant for whatever reason (a lot of them because of the minimal PAYE plus dividends issue). I think there'll be sweeping changes coming in.

The split between
Class 2 - raises sod all, gives entitlement to SSP, pension etc etc
and
Class 4 - raises loads but counts for nothing so is in fact tax
has been a joke for years

Employees are covered by an effective NI rate of 23%
the self employed by 9%
BUT
Ni is only on earnings rather than unearned income
so the ultra rich avoid it all together ....

Change is brewing