University Fees for on-line Lectures

[Kastanien]

Latest this morning(sorry if it is already on here, I checked and could not see a thread)
www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-52506283

Just wondering how those of you with DC due to start (or return to Uni) in the Autumn feel about full tuition fees for on-line learning?
I feel there should be a reduction as the teaching is not the same on-line as face to face.

Exactly. So their whole degree based on very poor provision and lack of support. There have been two strikes this academic year for a start, during which all lectures and academic support was withdrawn by striking staff.

Where was this?

@Hearhoovesthinkzebras - the university complaints process would be focused on improvements / explanations for the student not future cohorts if a shortfall was identified. For example, if there was a complaint about missing teaching I would be asking the department to explain their plans for making up the teaching to ensure that the learning objectives of the course are met. It might be that the department need a nudge to arrange something. It might be that the rearranged teaching arrangements have been poorly communicated.
Why not encourage your DC to complain?

I will hold my hand up and say we are not running tutorials or seminars now, but we are in our exam period and don't generally have timetabled sessions after Easter in a normal year. I'm spending a couple of hours a day answering student questions on my course discussion boards (which thankfully will drop after tonight because one exam is tomorrow). Normally at this time of year I would be having 4 hours a week of office hours so this is a much higher workload. The students are also benefiting from seeing the answers to everyone's questions rather than just their own.

We did, I will admit abandon our lower years a little since we are only running honours exams (years 3-5), although we did complete the lectures and coursework for them which is more than my daughter got at another university.

slug

Which sounds great for students in future years who may well benefit from an updated online experience but what of current students now, particularly those in their final year, who have had none of the extended online teaching, seminars,etc but, due to the suddenness of the situation have just had to manage with whatever little could be cobbled together for them?

You might all argue that Covid isn't down to universities, but the response is and the time lost to strike action this year most definitely is. Universities should own the repercussions that the combination of these will have had on student outcomes.

Where was this?

In England

thereinmadnesslies
She's in her final year. How are they going to make up the missing components. They continued after both of this academic year's strikes (so the one in the autumn and then the one in February/March) and were told that as it was industrial action nothing would be done to make up lost teaching time. They never went back after this most recent strike. Her first day back was the first day of lockdown so when will they be making up the learning objectives and missed teaching time? She's now had to submit her final essays. That's it. She's done.

In England

All of it?!!

University Complaints teams
are a total Chocolate teapot
for both the Universities my children attend and multiple others that their friends attended
so much is swept under the carpet its nearly at ceiling level

The current cohorts of students were being let down before Covid added to the pain

Unless academics and administrators accept that, it will get worse.

One of my children has looked at a Masters course that in the UK would cost £18000 in fees
but in an EU country would cost E600
same course leader working part time at two Unis
Brexit has bollocksed up the latter option
greed the former

PhoneLock

Yes. What's your difficulty? There was strike action before Christmas and strike action February/March this year.

@ Hearhoovesthinkzebras fair point, if she’s submitted her final assessment it’s harder to replace teaching. But she could still complain. The OIA (external ombudsman for university complaints) is clear that universities should take reasonable steps to mitigate for disruption caused by strikes. Your DD would need to follow the university complaints procedure before complaining to the OIA. You need good examples of where the university did not provide or offer a reasonable alternative for the published programme. Financial compensation is one possible outcome of an upheld complaint.

www.ucu.org.uk/article/10408/UCU-announces-eight-days-of-strikes-starting-this-month-at-60-universities

This refers to the strike action from early November to early December which clearly PhoneLock thinks I'm making up.

So that was four weeks missed last year when the term didn't even start until beginning of October and included a reading week and then best enough went into Christmas holidays.

The OIA (external ombudsman for university complaints) is clear that universities should take reasonable steps to mitigate for disruption caused by strikes
Please link to their rulings hauling Universities up and making them correct stuff
in time for THAT student to graduate

Yes. What's your difficulty?

My difficulty is this... " There have been two strikes this academic year for a start, during which all lectures and academic support was withdrawn by striking staff "

Are you are saying that it happened at every institution in England?

Are you are saying that it happened at every institution in England?
Did it not?
Does that matter?
Enough of us had our children's learning disrupted to make the comment statistically valid.

Hooves, you have every right to be pissed off, I would be too. Students who were at universities who participated in the strike will have lost out on a lot of teaching. My uni did not strike thank fuck but I can't criticise those who did.

As has become crystal clear to a lot more people now, a lot of universities are utterly awful, it has been hurting academics for years, now it's hurting students and that is terrible. Please, please, please complain about it, but please complain about the failures of the university and don't think it's the fault of the academics, most of us are doing everything we can to protect students.

thereinmadnesslies

They did complain about the strikes but got rebutted. This latest set of strikes ran straight into lockdown so how could universities mitigate time lost?

Even if they received a refund of this year's fees it won't make up for the effect on their final classification will it? This academic year she has lost eight weeks to industrial action plus however much to lockdown. She has barely had any teaching time at all. How can that have had no effect?

listening complaints at my university and the one my husband works at are taken very seriously. If your children think that isn't the case then they should absolutely take this to the OIA and/or OfS...they'd be very interested in this.

I was brought in off annual leave last year to deal with a complaint - the student had completely fabricated the entire thing which i explained at the outset. They didn't take my word for it and it was investigated fully.

There needs to be a clear, transparent complaints process.

SueEllen
The multiple of your anecdote is not data

Show me the evidence the the OIA or the OfS former head Toby Young are in any way effective.

Not every university took part in the strikes and neither did every academic.
I really feel for those that were hit by strikes and Covid 19....I really do.

Are you are saying that it happened at every institution in England?

Why does that matter? It happened to many universities and it happened at my dds (and my nephew's too. Also in final year and at a different uni) why is it only relevant if it happened at every uni? My DD was affected by both sets of strikes.

Toby Young was never head of the OFS. He lasted in total for about 8 days.

I really feel for those that were hit by strikes and Covid 19....I really do.

Great. So what are academics doing to address this then?

@Hearhoovesthinkzebras I know some universities have asked students to wait until the end of the academic year and after exam results to complain about strikes because that allows the student to demonstrate the whole picture of how the strike affected them. Eg if 25% of a module wasn’t taught then that content was a significant part of the exam we’d want the student to be able to complain about both the lost teaching and the unfair exam. Might that be the case? Might be worth an email to the complaints team?
The OIA will exceptionally look at cases where the university didn’t allow the student to follow its complaints process. If your DD has proof that this happened (im not doubting it occurred, but the OIA is a proof driven reviewer so it needs an email/letter demonstrating she was knocked back) then go straight to the OIA.

What would you like us to do?