Concerned that the government not releasing stats on child deaths

[Thewheelsarefallingoff]

Prompted by discussions on schools reopening; I tried to find more data on children seriously ill with CV and deaths of children.

On 27th April, the BBC reported the potentially fatal syndrome in children, at the time of the report, 20 children were in ITU with this in the UK: www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.com/news/amp/health-52439005

World meters just doesn't seem to have the stats for the UK by age and demographics:
www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/uk/

When I click on the link for age and demographics it takes me to a page with figures for New York City:
www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/coronavirus-age-sex-demographics/

I am concerned that we won't have the information in order for us to make reasoned decisions on whether to send our children back to school.

Does anyone have some reliable data on this?

Lots of missing information in my view! The lack of transparency is a disgrace.

ONS and NRS pages have all stats broken down by age, gender, area etc. I presume Wales and NI have equivalent.

@helpfulperson, the ONS only goes up to 17th April. What is the NRS?

There is actually lots of very good information available. As helpful said, the ONS has the figures from deaths certificates. There will be a time lag because of postmortems etc.
www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/deaths/datasets/weeklyprovisionalfiguresondeathsregisteredinenglandandwales

From a quick glance, in England and Wales during the whole pandemic to April 17th there have sadly been 9 deaths in children. 7 of these were in the older 15-19 age group.

The latest results from the ONS will be released on Tuesday.

National records scotland - just scottish equivalent of ONS. Releases figures weekly on wednesday for previous week.

@Humphriescushion gathering and verifying accurate figures takes time and given the speed this situation has developed its unsurprising that it may take more time to collate.

@Thewheelsarefallingoff the reports around children experiencing an inflammatory response are frightening but these do need to treated with a degree of caution. These are fairly recent observations and don’t seem to have been reported widely in countries many weeks ahead of us. There are certain syndromes that can develop as a direct consequence of a viral infection but it’s not clear whether this is directly related to corona virus or even that common. I think if it is a (rare) reaction to corona virus much more data would be need to judge whether it’s an phenomenon that is above the normal expected figures for development of a post-viral syndrome. These cases may fall within the ranges of ‘normal’ but we’re seeing more at this particular time because of the prevalence of a new virus and it’s spread. The numbers may not be particularly significant viewed over a longer period and those cases unlucky.

Thanks @cathyandclare that's useful (although I can't open the file on the page). It's clear to me that it is far too early to take any conclusions yet, due to the time delay. That's leaving aside inaccuracies in the reporting of cause of death at this time.

Message to paediatricians
www.rcpch.ac.uk/news-events/news/covid-19-message-president-1-may

Cornettoninja, I have experienced a life changing complication to a bog standard virus in my immediate family (the virus was never identified). I know it can happen to any of us.

Are there any journalists that can confirm whether this is an embargo on reporting deaths and serious complications in children?

there is,

I think the cause of death issue is more of a problem with the elderly, frail and those with multiple conditions. A death in a child would be thoroughly investigated. The numbers are thankfully very low.

There is a potential overlap with Kawasaki disease, so there is a possibility that children have Kawasaki and the virus, rather than the virus triggering the Kawasaki-like disease ( Kawasaki cases are reportedly down from average this year). However, from what I've heard and read health professionals are being very proactive and cautious because it's a new virus.

The info is the info, if you feel personally you don’t trust the government and the info isn’t enough for you then you need to dereg and home school until you feel confident.

I'm not sure why you you think there is an embargo when the information on child deaths is publicly available.

Sorry to hear that @Thewheelsarefalling off. Rare is no comfort when you’re one of the unlucky ones I know

Still, I don’t know if the exact data you’re hoping to find is out there as a completely reliable indicator. As things stand at the moment children continue to be the lowest risk group. Of course things are subject to change but this virus was only discovered five months ago and as widespread as it is we just don’t have the data to extrapolate yet.

There are lots of studies going on as we speak but the reliable ones haven’t reached conclusions yet.

There are all sorts of stats here which include age ranges of deaths, in total and by day, by NHS trust etc

It is England only but there may be similar resources for other parts of the UK

www.england.nhs.uk/statistics/statistical-work-areas/covid-19-daily-deaths/

Because, helpful, the information is up to 17th April and it gives the government a breathing space of up 2 weeks to get their story straight. 2 weeks in lock down is a long time for the media. The report on the syndrome in children is already outdated and that was only 5 days ago.

No, there's not an embargo on reporting child deaths or serious complications from COVID

Many HCPS are really unhappy in fact about the reporting around the serious reactions which may or may not be due to COVID, due to the anxiety it has caused.

wheels the link I gave you contains data up to and including yesterday.

Individual experience does not increase the risk. I had a rare reaction to a drug a number of years ago. 1 in 100000, this individual reaction should not result in the withdrawal of a therapeutic drug which is harmless to the other 999999 patients. Just means that I can’t take it.
The same is true of rare reactions to viruses. If only 1 in a million children experience this complication it is probably no more of a risk than a similar reaction to any other virus.
Just as an example how many children die every year as a result of road accidents on the way to school? Probably far more than will die of Covid-19 but we don’t consider this as a risk factor with attendance at school. Fortunately this year a lot less children will die as a result of attending school or any road travel.

I do not want to home school my DCs and I will probably send them back to school at the first opportunity. I do want more transparency. My work is busier than ever, luckily I can WFH. I would like to not have the additional pressure of home schooling.

I do not have blind faith in the government. Neither do I think it's Bill Gates or 5G.

Thank you@Callimanco

But how much additional information are they realistically going to be able to gather in 5 days? There are fewer than 20 children with the symptoms of this inflammatory response in the country. It is very unlikely that any firm conclusions will be drawn about it for many months.

The realistic position is that there will not be a time (certainly in the next few months) where risk from the virus is zero. Children are the lowest risk group according to the data so far and that observation has been replicated across the world.

Ultimately I think everyone will have to make their own call on when they are personally comfortable with sending their children back to school. For some that might mean choosing to home educate for a period of time.

t gives the government a breathing space of up 2 weeks to get their story straight

straight for what? What would that achieve exactly? It would be a daft policy to try and follow since it would very quickly become apparent wouldn’t it?

My head tells me that we would have already seen huge numbers of children affected if that were the case, if not in this country reports from abroad. It’s would be very hard to suppress widespread child deaths for any length of time.