Telegraph reporting primary schools to return 1 June

[MummaGiles]

www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2020/05/02/primary-schools-reopen-june-part-blueprint-unlock-britain/

Sorry it’s behind a paywall.

Just heard about this on the radio. They are suggesting that Johnson will address the country next Sunday (10/5) with the roadmap, part of which will be primary schools returning on 1 June.

Not saying I believe it, just sharing the link.

If reopening schools (and presumably nurseries which is where my interest currently lies) is all about child care to get parents back to work / working more effectively, then why not say one person can come and help look after your children, eg a family member? Would be much safer than all mixing in schools. Though I guess not everyone has this option. But it would still improve the situation.

Teachers should talk to their union.

A lot of schools in other countries aren't going back until September because they have much longer school summer holidays, so most of them would be breaking up either in May or early part of June, so no sense going back for a couple of weeks if that. So we really can't compare England to them (that is why schools in Scotland are possibly unlikely to go back until the Autumn term)

I am struggling to understand the strength of feeling on this thread. Children are not at even moderate risk from covid. Other countries have sent pupils back so we should be able to see if school staff catch covid from pupils before 1st june. Even then covid is most dangerous to the elderly and those with certain underlying conditions (who could be shielded) and not everyone working in schools.

We need to move towards a new normal. We can't lock down until September. Too many financial and social consequences. We need to find a way to protect the vulnerable but open things up again.

Nappyvalley which countries have sent their kids back to school? Denmark is the only one I can think of, and that absolutely isn’t going well!

@Nappyvalley15 Because many of us have vulnerable kids or adults in our household. Is that really so difficult to understand?

I wonder why people think it will be different in September?

There’s no logic to it. The virus doesn’t become less risky because it’s a new term.

People who think ‘September’ need to consider whether they are being rational.

I'm rather sick of this "government by running things up the flagpole in the press first."

I work with children every day, British children.
And in your experience (as a ...?), they are capable of massively changing every aspect of their school lives... based on.... what previous experience? This has never happened before! Japan has a very different culture to our own... similarly the US during the American civil war! 🙄 Children have never been so tested before. But considering the number of teachers with children who run out of classrooms, hit each other etc etc and don’t listen to their teachers as a par for course in our schools, I’m bemused by your faith in school children. It doesn’t take many of them to behave that way to ruin it for the rest of them.

@Nappyvalley15 as others have said, they’ve had a spike of their R number due to schools going back by 0.3. If we had a similar spike, our R level would go above 1. Considering it would be much harder for us to have the level of social distancing (and compliance from children) than in Denmark, we’d be lucky if our spike was as low as theirs.

Read back through the thread Daffodil

There are several posts explaining clearly why it's worth waiting until September. Then we reassess.

Possibly it won't be safe even then (we can't plan very far in advance during a pandemic) but it buys us more time. Time for more research.

Experts are learning new things everyday about the virus. The Covid toe issue and the ill children with rashes has only recently become apparent. We might know a bit more about possible long-term effects by then. We might not, but we certainly have more chance than if we recklessly rush a return to schools and work (with the inevitable second wave and second lockdown that would follow).

As well as work progressing on vaccines, we're seeing promising results with the drugs trials. So far they seem fairly effective if given early.

And very simply. Longer lockdown leaves the virus with nowhere to go. There's only so many people it can infect during a lockdown. Then again ours won't work unless and until we stop unessential flights (or implement checks and quarantine).

And very simply. Longer lockdown leaves the virus with nowhere to go.

This is the precise opposite of true.

What good is it to have a brief return to schools and workplaces - only to shortly after have to shut again. How disruptive to the economy. And for the children.

We ease lockdown too soon, we see huge increases in cases, many more deaths, economic chaos. Teachers and other school staff off sick so nobody to teach the children, transport workers off sick, HCP workers off sick so no treatment for anyone Covid or non Covid, energy and food supply workers off sick.

Ending lockdown early is a massive gamble. Successful gamblers know to never gamble on anything you can't afford to lose. The super rich pushing for premature end to lockdown can afford to risk the loss of (other people's) lives and the damage to the economy a second wave would bring. They're safe on private islands and won't be using crowded public transport or sitting in cramped open plan officrs. They're also already wealthy enough to afford the hit from the economic damage.

I work with vunerable families (not medically vunerable) safeguarding, children in care that sort of thing.

Please explain MarginalGain
Are you in possession of new information about Covid not yet known to experts around the world? Why would the basic concepts of contagion not apply to this particular highly infectious disease?

We tried it the way you seem to want, pretend there isn't an extremely contagious deadly disease on the loose, back in January and February. Look where that got us. Many many deaths (one of the highest death rates in the world), HCP dead, economic disruption, other countries (that handled it better) planning to bar entrance to UK tourists when they reopen (rightly so).

How about we learn from the mistakes made several months ago. Let's not repeat them by prematurely ending lockdown. Lives lost aside, the economic impact would be devastating.

Marginal Unless you mean the half-hearted UK lockdown won't reduce the spread. Yes you're right. It won't unless and until we (temporarily) stop unessential flights or implement checks and quarantine.

From what I recall of this thread most people calling for the lockdown to continue til September/vaccine aren't saying they are shielding vulnerable children. (In any case they could still continue to shield). Most sounded very scared and sounded as though they thought that we should ignore all other risks of continuing the lock down to prevent the relatively small risk of losing a loved one to this virus. That's what I found a little odd as we don't approach other risks in life like this.

I was all in favour of locking down because we needed to get a better understanding of the virus and work out how to deal with it. But based on what we know about the virus and the wider costs of locking down I would support a phased opening of schools from 1st june.

Working with children in care (regardless of nationality, no idea why you felt you had to add that they were British) is an entire world away from working with 30 4 year olds.

People are scared and mistrusting the government (rightly so!) so they’re going to vote with their feet and keep the kids at home. The media pushing this can do one.

The government can do one too

Some one asked if I worked with children in the UK. I also have 2 children...

I am struggling to understand the strength of feeling on this thread. Children are not at even moderate risk from covid.

Yes, but starting schools back is not just about children getting it.
It’s about the 100s of adults that work in schools, the parents of the children dropping off and picking up, the bus drivers.
Also it’s about the message it will send. If it’s ok for all the children to mix then it doesn’t matter if they go to each other’s houses and parents have a cup of tea together.
Many people are already bending the lock down rules. This will tell people it doesn’t matter any more.

The Telegraph and the Times reporting on schools has been outrageous. It’s beyond inaccurate and right into absolute bullshit.

Some one asked if I worked with children in the UK. I also have 2 children...

You also assert that all school children can be taught to socially distance.

I have told you that from my own personal experience of trying to get a group of 12 children in a school to do this that you can’t.

I don't think I said all. I said I didn't think it was impossible. I do think we are going to have to try either in June (which no matter how limited or unfamiliar the experience would be better for the vast majority of children) or in September. Personally I think it's better to give it a go in June.