Fat people even more likely to be affected by COVID than previously thought

[pocketem]

UK government scientists are urgently investigating whether people living with obesity may be disproportionately affected by the coronavirus, after emerging data from intensive care units suggested a stronger link than previously thought.

New data from the UK’s Intensive Care National Audit and Research Centre, which has been presented to ministers and SAGE scientists, has found that the proportion of severely obese patients in ICUs is twice the proportion in the general population.

Ministers have become increasingly alarmed by data coming out of Britain’s intensive care units, with some members of the government suggesting obesity may end up being a factor in the UK’s higher death toll.

The UK is currently projected to have the highest number of coronavirus deaths in Europe. Around 1 in 4 UK adults are obese. In 2018, the WHO found that the UK had the third highest obesity rate in Europe, behind only Malta and Turkey.

More here:
www.buzzfeed.com/amphtml/alexwickham/uk-scientists-coronavirus-obesity-link

@lesbihonest well done for the loss!

To be honest if I got more complicated I'd give up! My OH is already fed up of me weighing out food within an inch of its life. He then will eat a massive bowl of ice cream and never put on any weight. It's very annoying! I just have to look at it 😂

People vulnerable to becoming very ill after catching the Covid virus also seem to have one or more of the metabolic diseases.

People who are susceptible to metabolic diseases tend to have abdominal obesity (apple shaped or with fat centered around abdomen), type 2 diabetes (or pre-diabetes) and insulin resistance and a high fasting glucose, raised blood pressure and triglycerides. They don't necessarily have to be obese.

There is a bottom-up low carb movement world wide which has been addressing these diseases and using diet changes to reduce the effects of them, at the same time reducing the need for medications.

I know there are some longer-term low carb threads on mumsnet for members to support and chat about this marvellous way of eating to improve health and get rid of excess fat.

I have been low carbing for four years and its the only thing that has worked for me. I've lost excess fat from everywhere but particularly my waist and this is crucially important. The aim for a healthy waist measurement is waist to height - waist has to be half of height or less. I am 67 inches tall with a waist today of 30 inches. Four years ago my waist was 45 inches. I lost 100lbs of fat and kept it off.

It does mean eating a very different way that we have been advised officially by our dietary guidelines; no sugar, starches or grains. Just whole foods; plenty of fresh veggies (above ground if possible), and low sugar fruits (cucumber, peppers, avocado, tomatoes), fresh eggs, meat and fish (all types), cheeses, cream, butter/ghee.

Keep away from industrially produced seed/vegetable oils and margarines and choose animal fats, avocado or olive oils instead. Eating fat doesn't make you fat but it does fill you up/satiate you so you naturally adapt to actually eat less overall. That was the most amazing revelation for me - to no longer feel hungry. It means that I only need to eat a couple of meals a day, or sometimes only one. Somehow my body likes this way of eating and it means I don't fall ill or need to visit my GP (haven't been for four years, actually). Another fantastic side effect is that I haven't needed any dental work for years. The best of all is my mental health has become very stable, even through this awful lockdown.

I am hoping that our NHS will decide to allow low carbing to become a choice for people to try. Some GPs are already embracing this in their surgeries e.g. Dr David Unwin, a GP in Southport, has been practicing low carb with his patients and closely monitoring them for 6 years now. Inspiring guy. Google him.

It is very unlikely that any of us on here are disgusted with people who are overweight.

However what good foods people should try to eat is a vital issue and if more people could try to eat better foods as well as less food we might all be healthier.

@lesbihonest Slow is better believe me.

Hi @hamstersarse

There were fat people who wanted to lose weight back then

Not to the extent there is now.

I said elsewhere in my post that there wasn't anything like the obesity problem then that there is now, so I'm a bit worried that you haven't read it properly.

There is an age related aspect to insulin resistance and therefore weight gain. Mpst people in their 20's can consume a larger amount of carbs than a 50 year old. If you have consistently raised insulin you will eventually stop it working (insulin resistance). Your body iterally gets worn out by it.

This is to some extent true - I think that something like 25% of people over 65 have type 2 diabetes (although that might be America rather than here). But it's not just age, is it, or it would be quite a lot higher than 25%.

So no refined carb junk?

That's not what "cooking from scratch" means. I see that you are on a bit of an anti-carb crusade so I suppose there's not much point in talking about how dubious the quality of sausages or bacon can be. But I don't actually understand what you mean by "refined carb junk".

I think you must be assuming that people didn't eat white flour or refined sugar or fry potatoes or cake or puddings back then, but they did. They just had less of it.

Perhaps it is just a matter of time for someone who has excessive carbohydrate in their diet? Middle aged spread is a given? I don't agree with that and think everyone should limit their consumption of refined carbohydrate

I don't know what you mean by "limit" but I agree that people should watch their portion sizes, as I am doing at the moment.

I still get amazed that people continue to defend eating junk food!

I'm not

There is a bottom-up low carb movement world wide which has been addressing these diseases and using diet changes to reduce the effects of them, at the same time reducing the need for medications.

Thank you for your post @GoldenKelpie and I agree with everything you are saying < I just say it more crudely!>.

I have been under 25g of carbs for over 3 years. And what gets my goat even 3 years down the line is that people still don't know.

This is not a weight loss thing on it's own, a way to get your bikini body, it is about very basic health. I am also amazed how people are so quick to defend the eating of refined processed junk food. It's like when you say you are low-carb that you are excluding something important for your health and don't understand that when you low carb, you still eat some carbs, but you just don't eat the absolute shite that is peddled at all of us.

When I go to the supermarket, I only go to about 1/3rd of the aisles as the rest is literally junk food. I go to the fruit and veg section, the meat section, the cheese section and to the eggs and nuts. The rest is useless to me. Basically I could get what I need from a greengrocer and a butchers like the olden days . I don't need anything else! The supermarket is 2/3rd absolute shite.

I was not overweight when I went to this way of eating and had been using painful calorie controlling for years, however I lost a stone but crucially I was 31% body fat when I started and now am 21% body fat. All of that has gone from my stomach. The classic sign of skinny on the outside, fat on the inside - visceral fat.

But most of all the health benefits have been insane, you have listed a few, but I can say the following about my health:

• No bleeding gums
• No cold for over 3 years (although I did have a strange illness is Jan which I suspect was cv)
• Absolute extinction of recurrent UTIs
• Sleep much much better but wake up early before the alarm refreshed
• I had my bloods done earlier this year and cholesterol is high for the good one (2), low overall 2.2. HB1c score is 32, which is basically the lowest you can have
• No anxiety / worry about anything, very emotionally regulated
• Reduction of PMT
• Never get hangry ever

The bottom up low carb movement is very much gaining momentum. There is now a network of GPs who are making some very clear moves to challenge the NHS rhetoric - Dr David Unwin is at the forefront of this, a GP who has turned his practice in Southport into a low carb advocate clinic for T2 diabetes. His results are extraordinary, not only does it make massive savings on prescriptions, he changes people's lives.

It doesn't seems a lot to ask people to give up the junk but we have a long way to go to get this awful situation resolved.

@hamstersarse RIGHT. It is genuinely brilliant that this works for you. But I have also tried a very low carb diet and it does not work for me. It makes me ill. I started out at 20g carbs per day under the care of a diet consultant, I could not stay awake and I could not think. I increased carbs bit by bit as you are supposed to if you are having adverse effects and the effects did not lift until I was well out of anything approaching ketosis. I was more anxious and depressed without carbs and the consultant told me that some people's serotonin crashes if they don't have enough carbs. I'm one of those people.

Also, despite being obese, I do not suffer from any of the ailments that you've listed. I don't have bleeding gums, I don't have recurrent UTIs, I've never had high blood pressure, I've always had normal bloody sugar apart from very slightly elevated levels in pregnancy.

I think you're taking something that is obviously working brilliantly for you in your situation and trying to tell everyone that they have to do it too, without accepting that it might not work for other people the way it does for you.

No, @hamstersarse, just an educated person person who understands the data and does not talk our of her arsehole.

This is to some extent true - I think that something like 25% of people over 65 have type 2 diabetes (although that might be America rather than here). But it's not just age, is it, or it would be quite a lot higher than 25%.

No of course it is not just age,it is never just one thing! I am incredulous that you think 25% of people having a life threatening disease that is entirely controllable and preventable by diet is somehow not that much?

That's not what "cooking from scratch" means. I see that you are on a bit of an anti-carb crusade so I suppose there's not much point in talking about how dubious the quality of sausages or bacon can be. But I don't actually understand what you mean by "refined carb junk".
I think you must be assuming that people didn't eat white flour or refined sugar or fry potatoes or cake or puddings back then, but they did. They just had less of it.

Sorry, I did think that was what cooking from scratch meant - proper ingredients! And please do talk about the dubious content of some sausages and bacon - because I personally don't sit eating shitty sausages or bacon but I realise that is the stereotype of people who are low carb.

I acknowledge that people ate less of the sweet stuff in terms of portion, and that is sort of the point! We eat far too much of it - biscuits out all the time, a 'treat' everyday, eating a lots of refined flour starches. I don't think we are actually disagreeing on this point - we all ate less of it!

On your point about 'crusade', I see what you are doing. You are trying to make out that this is another fad, another bikini body diet. It's up to you what you think, however I defy anyone to argue with the clear cut science that excessive refined carbohydrates are bad for you - that is the reason it is being discussed on this thread - it puts your health at risk.

I don't know what you mean by "limit" but I agree that people should watch their portion sizes, as I am doing at the moment.

Limit is the same as portion size isn't it? You are already limiting your carbs if you watch your portion size but what you might find is you don't have to even think about portion size if you just limited your carbs, because high fat satiates you very quickly and you don't get as hungry. People have been trying to say this throughout the thread - its not a willpower thing where you have to watch your portion size, your body automatically does it for you.

Also, I actually read the studies and can interpret the data - do you?

RIGHT. It is genuinely brilliant that this works for you. But I have also tried a very low carb diet and it does not work for me. It makes me ill. I started out at 20g carbs per day under the care of a diet consultant, I could not stay awake and I could not think. I increased carbs bit by bit as you are supposed to if you are having adverse effects and the effects did not lift until I was well out of anything approaching ketosis. I was more anxious and depressed without carbs and the consultant told me that some people's serotonin crashes if they don't have enough carbs. I'm one of those people.

How long did you do it for?
And why did a diet consultant recommend it to you?

@Mominatrix

You aren't actually saying anything other than that you think you are a very clever person.

What is it you want to know? Which part is bollocks?

Low carb diets made me feel like that too. they can also cause problems with cholesterol as well. But this is a contentious issue and don't want to get into further debate as people get very passionate about low carb. Or vegan / paleo diets.

Maybe we are all different and some suit people differently. My blood sugars and cholesterol are best on a less low carb, more mediterranean diet overall.

GoldenKelpie great results, I have struggled with an apple shape forever and low carb gives me hope that I am not stuck with it, especially as I am mid-40s. I’m a 30w too (can be a 28 on a non pmt day🤪) and honestly it is a brilliant feeling. Not to be constantly trying to suck my stomach in or cover it up.
I forgot to mention the MH benefits before, there’s something about this way of eating that sort of cleared my head. I had awful brain fog and anxiety on a standard carb diet but I feel I have such clarity of thought now and an ability to be far less emotional —basically giving less of a shit!
Exercise has also defo helped with MH but it’s a virtuous cycle because LC gives you masses more energy so you aren’t fazed by exercise

@hamstersarse

I think that low carb can work for some people and is obviously working for you, but I think it is dangerous for you to be pushing it as a solution for everyone.

I was referred to a consultant physician because my weight was out of control and I was fortunate enough to be able to pay privately. I did the diet for about a year, I did lose about 2 stone, I could not maintain the diet because of how ill it felt. Please respect the fact that I have tried it and it did not work for me in the same way as I have acknowledged the fact that low carb has worked much better for you than it did for me.

I didn't say that 25% "wasn't that much". I really don't think you're reading very carefully and it is frustrating to have to keep going back to check what I've said. I agreed with you that diabetes prevalence seems to increase with age, I just said that I thought that if carbs had that effect on everyone as they grew older then the proportion would be higher than 25%. That is not the same thing as saying that 25% is negligible or that those people shouldn't be getting help.

*but what you might find is you don't have to even think about portion size if you just limited your carbs, because high fat satiates you very quickly and you don't get as hungry. People have been trying to say this throughout the thread - its not a willpower thing where you have to watch your portion size, your body automatically does it for you"

I HAVE ALREADY TRIED THIS. IT DOES NOT WORK THAT WAY FOR ME. It doesn't work if I "just limit my carbs". Please try to get your head around the fact that you and I are different people and what has worked for you did not work for me.

I don’t think low carb is great for very active women or slim women or women with thyroid issues.

It’s highly individual

Also need to watch impact on gut bacteria if paleo

Low carb diets made me feel like that too. they can also cause problems with cholesterol as well.

Cholesterol is another thing that may well have been over-simplified in our guidelines. It is very debatable what the role of cholesterol is on disease and poor health, despite what people claim is clear cut.

academic.oup.com/jn/article/133/9/2756/4688219

www.dietdoctor.com/low-carb/cholesterol-basics

When I go to the supermarket, I only go to about 1/3rd of the aisles as the rest is literally junk food. I go to the fruit and veg section, the meat section, the cheese section and to the eggs and nuts. The rest is useless to me. Basically I could get what I need from a greengrocer and a butcherslike the olden days. I don't need anything else! The supermarket is 2/3rd absolute shite.

Same here.

When you start to realise how much of the food in supermarkets is 'fake food', it's a real eye opener!

@CarterBeatsTheDevil

I do respect what you are saying. I am interested to know what you think has caused your obesity?

Not all carbs are created equal.

Carbs get a bad press, but a small amount of unrefined carbs is fine. A small amount of potatoes, wholewheat pasta and bread. Fine.

Refined carbs are not good for us, but ok in small amounts. Most people who eat junk food, who eat processed food and eat too much, eat too much refined carbs, fats, sugar, everything.

Unrefined carbs help your digestive system, fill you up and are better for you.

I lost loads of weight, decades ago on Atkins. It made me very poorly, listless and I looked awful. I understand that some bodies adapt to a low carb diet, and it benefits them. I need carbs for energy, well being and satiety and good digestion. But I only eat controlled amounts of unrefined carbs.

Diets, like SW, which encourage lots of carbs and foods enhanced with artificial sweeteners might be good for some, but I can guarantee that if I followed a SW diet, I would gain weight.

Portion control, food in, energy out. Getting the best nutrients from the foods that satiate your appetite. That's the key.

A lot of people want the magic wand of low carb diets, low fat diets, SW, etc. They want to eat unlimited foods.
Newsflash: They don't work in the long term. You have to eat less food, eat healthily and get the weight off. Then the hard bit, you have to eat a bit more of the same, to keep it off. But you can never go back to your previous eating habits that made you overweight, because that means you're back to square one.

Hamster our experience is the same - I dropped 2 stone and never felt better. Haven’t cut out carbs but cut them right back. Remember the 1980s home ec lessons that carbs should be the largest proportion of food group on your plate - just so wrong! No wonder there’s an obesity crisis!

SiameasyI started low carb healthy fat way of eating at the age of 52, 4 years ago so age doesn't matter. I only pledged to myself to do it for one month, and that was after months of dithering. The benefits began to kick in and I just carried on, and here I am today, slim for the first time since ever. Even as a teen starting on my own dieting treadmill of hell I was not as slim as I am today. A miracle.

Also, cholesterol is actually a crucial fat that exists in every cell of our body. There is evidence that it is protective not destructive and that the older you are the more protective it is. Statins are a scam for most people; so many people have side effects they do more harm than good. My mum has them, for no particular reason I can see .

I liken it to firefighters attending a fire to put it out and being blamed for causing the fire, or police going to a crime scene being blamed for causing it. Cholesterol goes to the point of inflammation in order to heal it not cause it.

No, @hamstersarse, I am telling you that your attitude that you know better than people who have been studying this topic for decades is dangerous. The fact that you cannot see the nuances and only black and white demonstrate your ignorance.

People ate lots of carbs in the 50s and 60s without being at all overweight though? Toast, potatoes, pastry. I think some carbs are good for you. Wholemeal toast, the really rough organic type (Cranks) fills me up until lunch.

hamstersarse hey nice to meet another low carber. Once you know you know.

But we also have to acknowledge that the addiction to processed foods containing industrially refined seed and veg oils sugars, flours and starches is real and deadly. This is why there is so much resistance to addressing it.

The low fat high carb diet was taking off in earnest (causing obesity and ill health in the long term). When I was a child in the 60's the snack industry was still in its infancy in my part of the world. The badmouthing of real butter in favour of refined margarines and spreads was beginning. This industrially processed substance is very toxic to humans (but very, very cheap) and should have never been permitted to be used as a food.

In the 60's eating between meals was a no-no, eating on the street was too. Eating out was something we as a family NEVER did, ready meals were rare (remember Vesta curries) and my mum would never buy something like that. Once a month or so we might get a take away fish and chips but two portions would be shared between the family and no fizzy drinks would be there - they would be a very, very occasional treat at Christmas or a birthday.

I look at the mass of ultra processed substances around and I despair. This stuff just made me eat and eat and never get full. It messed with my head but I didn't realise until I stopped eating it. I will NEVER eat it again, ever.

Cardiologist Aseem Malhotra is taking a lot of flack at the moment because he is standing up and challenging the NHS for permitting processed junk food companies from using this virus to virtue signal and 'donate' thousands of their junk foods to staff. This stuff is toxic and far from being a treat will just cause a huge rise in blood sugar then a big crash which will leave them hungry and hangry. I know this, because I lived this nightmare for decades.