Fat people even more likely to be affected by COVID than previously thought

[pocketem]

UK government scientists are urgently investigating whether people living with obesity may be disproportionately affected by the coronavirus, after emerging data from intensive care units suggested a stronger link than previously thought.

New data from the UK’s Intensive Care National Audit and Research Centre, which has been presented to ministers and SAGE scientists, has found that the proportion of severely obese patients in ICUs is twice the proportion in the general population.

Ministers have become increasingly alarmed by data coming out of Britain’s intensive care units, with some members of the government suggesting obesity may end up being a factor in the UK’s higher death toll.

The UK is currently projected to have the highest number of coronavirus deaths in Europe. Around 1 in 4 UK adults are obese. In 2018, the WHO found that the UK had the third highest obesity rate in Europe, behind only Malta and Turkey.

More here:
www.buzzfeed.com/amphtml/alexwickham/uk-scientists-coronavirus-obesity-link

Humans have a sweet tooth anyway Querlouse because breast milk is sweet. Many poisonous plants taste bitter so we are inclined to favour a sweet taste but we have gone too far in our pursuit of it!
If you’ve ever given up sugar and sweeteners you will notice how fruit becomes unbearably sweet. This is because all this added sugar and artificial sweeteners are dulling the senses. A little bit is never enough and that was always the plan with the processed food industry

I think the tendency to crave it could be innate. DH’s side are obsessed. They even love artificial sweet smells which I find sickly eg a scented eraser. Just anecdote of course.

An ICU doctor who came down to CT scanning with his patient said that the patient had the typical body habitus of people who do badly with CV; he was 63, Mediterranean, with a sizeable beer gut and spindly legs.

The doc said they can almost tell who's going to make it and who isn't by a first glance 😳

twitter.com/ArashMassoudi/status/1256914082440994818?s=20

Sorry, wrong link

twitter.com/CamCavendish/status/1256520325791199232?s=20

Not sure about the relevance of that tweet?

More on the link between obesity and inequality

Hi @Querlouse. Here's a report by the NHS on the disproportionate effect of rising obesity on children in lower socioeconomic classes www.nhs.uk/news/obesity/children-poorer-backgrounds-more-affected-rise-childhood-obesity/

I don't think it's very helpful to keep asking why all people in lower socioeconomic classes aren't obese, though, anymore than it is to ask why all people who are in car accidents don't die because some people do. You seem like an intelligent person and I'm sure you can understand that when we talk about seeing more of something like obesity in a part of the population that is a bit more nuanced than just saying that everyone in that section is obese.

I'm not in a lower socioeconomic class, although my parents weren't well off, so that isn't anything to do with my own weight issues. But it is interesting and we should be investigating why it is that obesity is more common in some sections of society than in others.

The thing is, the mystery to me has never been why slim people didn't get fat. It was how other people could not order pudding, or leave half their pudding, or have a couple of chocolates or sweets and put the bag away. That was the bit I didn't understand. I was slightly in denial about just how much I was really eating, but I could see that other people ate less than I did. I just couldn't understand how they could say no. The answer is the same as alcohol: most people like it but can stop after a couple, but some people really can't. That's me and sugar. Once I got used to seeing it in addiction terms, I realised that I just had to accept that I wasn't going to learn to eat the foods that pressed my buttons sensibly, anymore than an alcoholic is really going to get to a point where they can drink alcohol in moderation. So the task for me is to find enjoyment and comfort elsewhere, and avoid those foods that distort my appetite and stop me from being able to control my eating. Not everyone who overeats does it for the same reasons as I do and perhaps other people can just learn to have moderate amounts of chocolate and cake and sweets, but that's not going to be me.

Carter, same here. I just have to not have the sugar and then I get out of that need - habit although it is not easy.

More today on obesity and CV

"Being fat triggers a 'troublesome' immune response to COVID-19, scientists fear.

Scientists advising Government ministers are exploring potential underlying mechanisms that could increase the risk of death for obese patients.

According to data from intensive care units, people of a healthy weight make up a minority of critically ill COVID-19 patients. Almost three quarters are carrying extra weight.

And NHS hospital data this week revealed obesity raises the risk of dying from coronavirus by nearly 40 per cent.

While the reasons remain unclear, scientists have warned of a potential dysfunctional immune system that makes fighting the virus more difficult.

Fat cells - of which there are more in the tissues of obese people - may harbour vital immune cells, reducing their availability in the rest of the body.

Or it may swing the other way - the immune response may go into overdrive, known as a cytokine storm, which is thought to play a major role in COVID-19 death.

There hasn't been data to suggest obese people are more likely to catch the killer virus in the first place. "

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8281831/Being-fat-triggers-troublesome-immune-response-Covid-19-scientists-fear-SAGE-investigates.html

That’s not ‘more’ Xenia. That’s exactly the same study repackaged by a less responsible source of reporting.

Thanks - yes the SAFE report. It looks very interesting. Good time for everyone to lose weight at present, if they can.

And if they can't, fuck them right? They still shouldn't have access to the NHS.

I am just in the overweight category and have been very motivated not to gain any more weight.

What we could ask is this.

If it really is a case of it's what you eat and how much you exercise etc how come in some cases overweight/obese people loose weight by calorie restriction and intense exercise. As soon as they slip up then they're back to square one.

A 'healthy' person could have a period of a few days where they eat like crap and lounge on the sofa and will suffer no ill effects at all. Most thin people I know stuff their faces everyday with alcohol, chocolate, takeaways and don't do much exercise beyond walking the dog but never gain a significant amount of weight.

There must be more to it than what you eat etc

"Hilary Camilla Cavendish, Baroness Cavendish of Little Venice (born 20 August 1968) is a British journalist and former Director of Policy for Prime Minister David Cameron. Cavendish became a Conservative Member of the House of Lords in Cameron's resignation honours, but resigned the party Whip in December 2016 to sit as a non-affiliated peer"

Perhaps all people in that category should shield right now My overweight friend who cleans in our local hospital included. And the others who are overweight who work in the NHS, for supermarkets and in care homes.

Does anyone know if they can get furlough.

Perhaps they should just walk out and say that due to the concern about their weight re. Covid 19 its best that they #StayHomeSaveLives.

In my own case it is much more complicated than 'addicted to sugar' or 'eats a whole packet of biscuits every day' or takeaways constantly, or doesn't exercise. And there must be thousands of women like me.

The fact is I can't eat little enough to lose weight. That's it. All I need to do is embrace being hungry! But that is what I can't do.

I eat heathily. I exercise 4 times a week. I do Pilates. I eat my 5 a day. I just find eating 1300 calories a day impossible.

So I'm quite fat.

How I got fat? I was overweight as a child, always a bit over what I should be. As a teenager I was overweight- just a bit though, so a size 12 at 5 foot 2. At age 32 I gave up smoking and put on weight, then lost it until menopause hit me.

Every time I have put on weight as an adult it is 2 and a half stone- never any more.

I find it so frustrating.

I've gained weight. Why?
Well I'm shielding so can't go out
I was waiting for a dermatologist appointment to start on Xolair as I'm allergic to exercise/sweat (I joke not!) which hasn't happened because of all this
My TSH is 7, and I have antibodies showing I'm killing my thyroid but they won't medicate me so I have an under active thyroid
Add all that up...

On the plus side I am pretty healthy despite my medical conditions and have had fast recoveries from long operations and no issues with breathing etc

Does anyone know if they can get furlough

That's not how furlough works. Its not up to the employee. Their employer has to prove there's no work for them. Being fat isn't a reason.

@Movinghouseatlast I'm trying to stick to 1400 calories but it's the evening hunger pangs that's the problem- I know once I get past them (it takes a few days) & my stomach shrinks a bit it will be easier.

When I overeat it's not crap I'm eating - I only have to look at an extra apple or banana over my calorie allowance to put on weight.

Also I work in a physical job 3 days a week so I have to eat up to at least 1600 calories on those days or I feel faint at work - seriously. I think it's the medications I take?
But obviously eating more calories slows the weightloss.

I'm aiming to lose 2lbs a week so I should hopefully be at target by the end of August - my birthday.

I'm also aiming to get fit, to stop feeling so breathless at every activity and to tone up.

Movinghouseatlast menopause is a bitch for losing weight. I'm hoping the extra oestrogen in my HRT will protect me

Anyone wondering why they are overweight should watch The Magic Pill on Netflix

@Movinghouseatlast have you thought of trying LCHF rather than calories counting ? You can eat a lot more so you don’t get so hungry.

@Querlouse
Because it proves that choices are being made somewhere down the line. Individual choice.
Yes, I can see they exist, I'm interested in why some can avoid them. I'm not having a go at you personally! I'm interested in how to unpick it.

I'm interested too, I think it's an important discussion. When we were on benefits I would spend the limited food budget, and buying foods like cheap and basic fruit and vegetables, rice, red lentils, tinned tomatoes, oats, milk, coffee, cheap sliced wholemeal bread, cheese, vegemite, the minimum to put three meals a day on the table or in my child's lunchbox, there was simply no money left for junk food.

Xenia is right that people should try to lose weight if they can Clearly it's something to aim for. We can also acknowledge that it's not so simple for many.

I was just saying on another thread how in some cases doctors have actually contributed towards some people's obesity. ClientQ is another poster writing of thyroid issues being dismissed. A PP wrote about it yesterday. It also happened to a friend of mine. Thyroid issues can cause weight gain. As can the antidepressants many, particularly women, are fobbed off with. Then there's people waiting months on end for treatment with limited mobility. I'm talking pre pandemic. Clearly things can't be normal right now. There's MH links to obesity, and poverty - no cooking facilities, often less healthy processed food bank food, etc. Nobody should be fat shamed.

Interesting article Xenia It makes me think even more immunosuppressants might have a valuable role to play in treating this disease.

@ClientQ Have you tried something like basic yoga or similar. There are some good home workouts on YouTube including ones aimed at people with limited mobility or who are unable to do usual exercise for whatever reason. With your thyroid can you afford a one off consultantion with a private endocrinologist? When they're open again. They might be willing to trial you on medication and refer you in to their NHS clinic for follow ups.