Fat people even more likely to be affected by COVID than previously thought

[pocketem]

UK government scientists are urgently investigating whether people living with obesity may be disproportionately affected by the coronavirus, after emerging data from intensive care units suggested a stronger link than previously thought.

New data from the UK’s Intensive Care National Audit and Research Centre, which has been presented to ministers and SAGE scientists, has found that the proportion of severely obese patients in ICUs is twice the proportion in the general population.

Ministers have become increasingly alarmed by data coming out of Britain’s intensive care units, with some members of the government suggesting obesity may end up being a factor in the UK’s higher death toll.

The UK is currently projected to have the highest number of coronavirus deaths in Europe. Around 1 in 4 UK adults are obese. In 2018, the WHO found that the UK had the third highest obesity rate in Europe, behind only Malta and Turkey.

More here:
www.buzzfeed.com/amphtml/alexwickham/uk-scientists-coronavirus-obesity-link

@Querlouse thank you

"Actually overweight people don't always know this."

There was somebody on this thread or another one on MN today who said they didn't know whether they were overweight or not.

A friend of mine had to sue a scale to find out - just looking at her body wasn't enough for some reason.

Well that shocks me. I find women even a bit overweight always know.
Yes some men who are just a bit fat don't seem to realise, but most women are very aware of weight and know what weight they should be. A lot know what their BMI is.

Obesity is very often a mental health issue and there are many socio-economic factors, too. It angers me that in the most deprived areas there are more takeaways. That the poorer you are, the less access there is to high quality food. That successive governments and medical establishments have simply not paid enough attention to the direct casual link between nutrition and physical and mental health.

Covid feels like some ghastly consequence of a society over medicated for mainly preventable conditions due to a corrupt society and medical system.

So by that token, if people are the victims of a corrupt system, why isn't everyone overweight or obese?

That’s a bit like asking ‘why isn’t everyone a higher rate taxpayer?’ Different life chances, different opportunities, different genetic predispositions, different personalities. The fact that a significant majority of people are now overweight strongly points to a societal issue.

"I find women even a bit overweight always know."

The one upthread said she didn't think she was overweight, but doesn't have a scale so doesn't know.
Another friend had been told by the doctor to get her weight into the healthy range. She finds bigger to be attractive so she didn't have the usual thing of just looking at yourself and thinking I'm getting fat. She was asking me here in town she could find a scale to weight herself and she stopped dieting the minute she reached the top of the healthy BMI.

I was wondering for ages why drs need BMI as an explanatory tool and why people can't just look at their bodies and realise they're overweight, but there's obviously quite a bit of denial and also people being surrounded by others who are big so they don't see it.

"if people are the victims of a corrupt system, why isn't everyone overweight or obese?"

Go to a very deprived area and you will see most people over a certain age being overweight or obese. I was in Merthyr with a friend who lives abroad and he couldn't stop staring. He wasn't being nasty, it was just new for him to see hole groups of obese people.

The fact that a significant majority of people are now overweight strongly points to a societal issue

So why isn't everyone overweight? What are the non overweight people doing to beat the system?

Well partly it’s luck, they’re born into privilege of many kinds. But apart from that it’s obviously very complicated.

But not everyone in areas of deprivation is overweight. So what are those people doing differently?

But not everyone in areas of deprivation is overweight

Exactly, I grew up on a deprived estate, I was in the minority being overweight. What has really changed over the past 2 decades? People certainly didn't have any extra money from the state back then, and there wasn't comprehensive education at school (aside from making pineapple upside cake and sausage rolls).

Societal trends don’t mean everyone is affected in the same way. A link between deprivation and obesity doesn’t mean everyone in a deprived area will be obese, obviously. Rather than looking at it as some people getting it ‘right’ and some people getting it ‘wrong’ (because blame language doesn’t help), we should look at what is driving the general tendency and what we can do to change that.

Hi Siameasy Large people were outliers eg Roland from Grange Hill but are now the norm. What happened?

This is the crucial question. How did the majority of a population go from healthy weight to fat in the space of a couple of decades? This simply cannot be a individual issue. From what I have read and watched, the processed food industry happened to us. 80s onwards. As a whole, the country's diet shifted radically and many, many people are now addicted to sugar. I do believe it is an addiction. It gives a dopamine hit. It is a brain reward.

If overweight people don't realise this (and it is in the industry's interests that as a population we are not educated on this) they don't realise they are not lacking willpower, they are fighting an addiction. Infinitely harder. People saying "just eat less", that's like saying to a smoker "just give up". Simple in theory, very difficult in practice.

Why isn't absolutely everyone overweight pp? Because some people, clearly helped by socio-economic factors that affect many health issues, have managed not to become addicted to sugar. They are like non smokers who do not experience the same craving for a fag that the addicted smoker craves. But for the sugar addicted person, going anywhere that serves food is like sticking an alcoholic in a pub. And that's everywhere, all day! I also worry that there is a an element of the 'alchoholic for life' with sugar addiction such that it's far easier to slip back into bad habits than if you had never had the addiction in the first place. Not sure if this would be psychological or because of altered gut biome.

Unless 1- the obesogenic environment and industry's role in that, and 2 - the addiction aspect of sugar are fully understood and acknowledged, the obesity epidemic can't be dealt with and it is unfair and inadequate to blame individuals for just not having enough willpower.

I'm derailing somewhat. Obviously the best thing anyone can do for themselves right now is to try and lose weight if the inflammatory state of being obese is indeed a risk factor but I appreciate how hard it is even when logically it's the obvious thing to do for both this disease threat and health generally.

I think it’s such a multitude of factors relating to fewer physical jobs, both parents working and having less time to cook, supermarkets meaning we don’t have to cook and don’t even need to learn to cook, an Americanisation if family life, access to transport, car ownership and the fast food industry. Walk down any street in deprived area and count the fast food shops.

Try getting a government to tackle this with short term politics and tackling the food giants. Even the NHS is so out of date and has been low fat since the 80s which I think has been the icing on the obesity cake. If you don’t fill up on full fat butter and cream and fatty meats, you fill up on pasta and processed, “low fat” bread.

Welcome to obese Britain

But there are families in deprived areas that aren't obese! Why? Why aren't they addicted to sugar/takeaways?

You keep bringing this point up! There are no absolutes. Not everyone who smokes gets cancer. Not all old people with covid are badly affected. Not all families in poorer areas are obese. Not all families in middle classes aren’t obese.

You need to look at averages and trends. Those statistics are there and clear. Obesity in the west is a socioeconomic issue as much as anything else

Because it proves that choices are being made somewhere down the line. Individual choice.

Some individuals from state schools do brilliantly at A Level and go to first rate universities. Doesn’t mean that every state school pupil has the same opportunity as every private school pupil.

So you are saying susceptibility to sugar addiction is innate? Like clever kids at state schools? That would be interesting and also depressing as, like intelligence, there would be very little anyone could do about it.

Nl. I’m just saying that the fact that some people are able to avoid the most negative impacts of disadvantage doesn’t mean those overall impacts don’t exist.

Yes, I can see they exist, I'm interested in why some can avoid them. I'm not having a go at you personally! I'm interested in how to unpick it.

I think we need to be mindful when using phraseology such as 'overweight', 'obese' and 'fat' that these are not all the same thing and there is a big difference in the impact upon your health.

Obese means a BMI of over 30, morbidly obese is a BMI over 40. It is people at the higher end of this scale who are most affected by Covid-19 and often will have other underlying health conditions.

Overweight is also an official category of BMI 25-30 and whilst this should act as a bit of a warning to watch your food/drink intake and exercise, being in this category itself does not have a negative impact on your health, and indeed for a women who is a pear shape BMI 27 actually has some protective factors from her weight. The issue of course is to maintain this and not put more on.

'Fat' can be in the eye of the beholder and depending on the norm of people around you.

And it’s not just sugar Antibles, the dopamine effect also apparently happens with cereal grains and dairy due to opioid-like substances within. I wouldn’t be surprised if potatoes were equally troublesome as I find them addictive.

And artificial sweeteners are dreadful and perpetuate the problem. If you’re addicted to sugar you need to break up with sugar, not use a chemical substitute.

Another question is-if you wanted to fatten a human how would you do that? I believe answer would be - feed him cereal grains, potatoes and sugar. Pretty much the staples of the western diet.

Why aren't they addicted to sugar/takeaways?

Well, for the same reason that some people can take a line of Coke at a party and then leave it but some people become addicted? Why some people can enjoy a few drinks but some become alcoholics? Why some people can enjoy a flutter on sports but others become addicted to gambling? Because everyone is different.