Ireland plans for Phased re-opening

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The Taoiseach (Irish PM) has announced tonight a 4 phase period for re-opening the country but has said that schools will remain closed until September.
Must admit, I’m happy about the delay as I was worried about how I’d manage DS attending school with his dad cocooning as DH has a blood cancer.
Also, that small social gatherings of friends can begin on 18th May outdoors, providing still maintaining social distancing rules. That’s really lifted my spirits as I’m missing seeing my friends.
Any other Irish mumsnetters on here?
What are your thoughts about tonight’s announcement?

I think Leo is doing whats right for Ireland.Hes doing it in phases that can be adjusted.

Theres no right way or wrong way.Its unprecendented.So every country is winging it,

The EU has a rescue scheme which is starting off at €500 billion.

It has three objectives: The first is to make loans available to countries in really big difficulty to help their healthcare ability to respond to Covid-19; secondly, there is a company plan - to use European Investment Bank to make money available to companies at low interest rates to respond to Covid-19; and a third plan for workers to help companies pay for wage subsidy schemes.

That fund is likely to be doubled or even tripled, to €1 or 1.5 trillion.

We haven't had to avail of any of the funds yet, but it's there.

Yes but it’s still borrowing, and just like the Uk, who also borrows, it needs to be paid back. And with interest. Like your mortgage or any other loan. On top of what already has to be paid back.

And the only people who pay it back is the tax payer. The Irish people. There is no free money or loan.

As said, I just think there needs to be a balance, and when you prevent large swathes of your population from working for months and months, the cost is huge.

That’s what this plan does. It’s not just rhe paying back of the loans through increased taxes, it’s the unemployment that occurs when large parts of your working population can’t actually go to work, inc business owners.

I’d understand if by sept this would be totally over, but it won’t be.

It won’t be eradicated, and it will be the start of flu season, so a double whammy.

so what happens in September, it spreads through the population, like it did in every other country in June or July, and those countries had nhs capacity due to no flu, and all that’s happened Is the Irish people have paid billions to keep it at bay over the summer, lost many of their jobs in rhe process, just so it can be released during during flu season and really fuck the population and health care system over. In the mean time, people are dying because of other reasons too.

It seems so so damaging and short sighted. Unless something miraculous happens by Oct the Irish are going to be in real trouble.

It seems so so damaging and short sighted. Unless something miraculous happens by Oct the Irish are going to be in real trouble.

I've seen so many Irish people say the same about the UK over the past couple of months.

I agree that childcare is not an issue for everybody. In my work, most of us have been able to keep working (we are essential).

I have teens and luckily I don't need childcare. Some people have younger kids and have shared the childcare with their husband/wife so they have been available to work from home if possible or come in some of the time.

So you can't say it's ''rubbish'' to phase back to work by xx date because there's no childcare. People will do what they can.

Yeh, no doubt we have tough years ahead, economically, but we will have enough to eat and we will only be cutting back on cars, clothes, holidays, eating out etc.... we are lucky. We have enough. It won't be easy though. Especially as we have just come out of a recession. We'd had a few years of recovery and now this!

I don't see any way around the fact that we have tough years ahead though. I am glad that they are trying not to destroy people's lives.

Or rather, providing benefits which will prevent people from facing the sort of catastrophic financial ruin that destroys lives.

Ah here. What timeframe do you think it'll need to be paid back in?

It's not like getting a mortgage, countries take literal lifetimes to pay back debt. And it's going to be extremely low interest because it's an internal EU loan and the health of the EU economy depends on the health of the economies within it, therefore it's counterproductive to cripple an economy in forcing a severe repayment schedule with heavy interest.

Sometimes being in a club does have its benefits.

For example, the European Central Bank has said that all Eurozone governments may borrow this year at an almost-negative or negative interest rate, regardless of Covid-19. This means large borrowing won't affect their domestic interest rates.

Of course they will do what they can, but what will single parents do? What will parents do where both need financially to work? People can’t just pretend that these people don’t exist or don’t matter, they do exist, they do matter and there are a lot of them, as there are in most western populations.

What exactly will they do when family can’t take the kids, when no paid child care is allowed, and schools are closed. They can’t be taking their kids to the factory with them, or the office, or the supermarket.

Take a tradesman who comes to my home, him and his wife have separated, they both work, they share child care fifty fifty, what exactly are they supposed to do, take three kids under five with them to work? Neither of their roles can be done from home. Which one gives up work? Which one pays for the other since they hate each other.

There are so many families like this, what about the family where both parents work on low earnings, a couple of kids, family do the child care, they need to work to pay their bills, because neither one earns enough to pay them all, neither have jobs that can be done from home. What do they do?

What about the single parent, who needs to work to keep a roof over her kids heads and food on the table, she also has all child care options cut off to her, what does she do as her job can’t be done from home. Take her kids into H&M when she does her shift? Work the till with her baby in a pram next to her? Whilst chasing her toddler around?

These people exist. What solution do people think they will come up with ?

She takes the €350 and stays home.

You do realise this has been going on for quite some time already right?

That’s the point though, we have come full circle, so the Irish people keep paying for large swathes of the population to stay home, pay with their taxes,,businesses go bust because they can’t operate, or people lose their jobs. Has Leo even announced he is keeping payment going till September when schools go back?

And then what, it’s flu season, the virus hasn’t gone. Mass unemployment, increased taxes, kids back in school the virus spreads like it would have now. It makes no sense at all. But you all have to pay for a summer of delaying it till September.

Bluntness, not everyone is a single parent, or even a parent who needs childcare. I don't get why the restart of the economy depends only on workers who need childcare, many don't.

The plan is to start the economy slowly and as safely as possible. So those who can go back to work, those who can't get childcare go back in the later stages.

It's really weird how fixated you are on one aspect of this. Have you even read the rest of the plan? It's very comprehensive, set out clearly in stages, and has a fall back if things don't go to plan.

Why don't you go and find the UK's plan (good luck with that, is there one?) and pick holes in it?

As for the country being broke - we're used to that, we've been broke for years. As a society we'll survive.

@Bluntness100 you seem to think that the people of Ireland have no concept of the cost of the measures we're taking or that we all think money grows on trees. Having come through the recession of 2008 and the banks bailout that followed, we're probably more aware than most European citizens of the punitive financial measures that will follow. For me there's a sense of déja vu. The alternative is that we open up everything and throw caution (and our elderly and vulnerable citizens) to the wind. I've no doubt there will be a second wave as winter approaches but if nothing else, this hiatus will give the HSE time to stock up on PPE and testing kits. And perhaps we'll be another step closer to a vaccine by then.

Personally I'm up shit creek as my sector will be the last to go back, but I still don't think that rushing it and then having to back up a step is any use. We've all, as a country, managed so far, I like the idea that we now have a plan of sorts.

I’m a single mother and a senior manager in an organisation providing an essential service. I have a minder from my sons crèche coming in for past 5 weeks - I’m paying 600e more a month than I normally pay the crèche. I know single mother nurses who have also had to organise minders to come into their homes. What choice did they have?? The government has completely ignored their plight for the past 7 weeks, while the HSE still expected to them to go to work. I just hope when my minder has to go back to the crèche in June, that they will be able take my son full time. I’m worried they may do part time hours only in order to maintain social distancing and then I’m stuck again. My son starts school in September - again will it only be for a few days a week? And will afterschools be operating for the balance of hours?? It’s just such a headache. But of course I remind myself that I’m lucky to have a job and a salary which means the extra money for childcare can be found. I feel sorry for those on less money with this dilemma.

Seems well thought out.

I see in phase 5 form hooks and universities it says “phased opening”. I haven’t seen any details on this so not sure ofThe plans but doesn’t sound like it will be as simple as “open the schools”. Maybe some years first, not others? So prioritise exam years and younger kids?

haven't RTFT but a friend who works in a (non essential, and currently closed) chain store in the uk, has told me she was emailed by her manager, saying they expected to be opening and hence return to work on 18th May.
No idea where the date came from, or whether shops and businesses are being told before the general population when they can open but it seems pretty soon.

Bluntness, do you think other countries are not borrowing? Do you think Ireland will be worse off than Italy or Spain? Can you give some suggestions based on other countries plans that Ireland might incorporate in the ‘live document’?

There will always be specific scenarios like the one you outline that will be difficult for the individuals involved. That’s not how policy is determined.

And as pp said, they’ll take the Covid payment until childcare reopens in July.

Phased opening means different classes on different days. So fir example first years in on morning, third years in afternoon. So it will be a mixture of some school time and home learning. Teachers will be in everyday. The whole school will not be in together.
This was worked out with unions..

@sparkl I am Irish. I thought the Covid payment was just for people who have lost their jobs.

You are saying that if a mother cannot get childcare, she can give up her job and get the Covid payment?

Are you sure?

"Interesting article by Fintan O’Toole in the times taking about bail outs. We spent 42bn euro on the bank bailout up to 2018, with 36bn saving two particular toxic banks. 30bn for Covid. I know which I think is getting outraged about."

Agreed Sparkl

If people lose their jobs, they sign on as normal. If people are furloughed, they get a letter from the company and send it in to social welfare. If people are vunerable or immunosuppressed I believe they get a letter from the GP and they send it in to their company, who furlough them and give them a letter for social welfare.

(There's probably a specific form, I haven't had to do it myself)

With regards to Frontline healthcare workers who can't get childcare:

If all flexibilities have been exhausted, and you must remain home to take care of your children, you are still classed as available to be assigned work and thus paidas normal with all allowances.

What country is that @Elspeth