How will large schools cope?

[oldbagface]

The school issue is worrying. Our school has approximately 1800 pupils. Inner city school in a deprived area. Huge percentage of pupils do not have English as a first language which may possibly hinder understanding of the plethora of new rules they will be expected to adhere to. Further, a high percentage of kids with learning disabilities, Ditto the same issue. Also, even if all kids were able to be compliant and carried out all expectations to the letter, who is going to clean the school throughout the day. Particularly high touch areas. It's not possible. I don't see how it will be safe.

Then if we go with the untested theory that kids don't spread it. In a school of our size there's a lot of adult staff members. Still plenty of opportunities to spread the virus.

Opinions please.

If and when schoolls return lets not kid ourselves in any way that there will be social distnacing in place.

This.
It really doesn't matter if we only see one year group in school at a time or the whole lot.
The children will still crowd together, jump around, push and shove. That's what they do.
In the classroom. I would need a class of 6 maximum for any kind of social distancing to take place. How would that happen?
There would have to be a new timetable.
Classrooms are small.

And I know the school I work in is a bit rough, we had older students deliberating spitting at younger ones the weeks before we finished. Others fake coughing at teachers and each other, challenging each other to lick books in the library ffs. That won't change. Sad, but that's what we face.

I don't work in a rough school and some children did the same.

4000 in my FE college with one small canteen that regularly has 400 plus using it one hour. Spread out campus but then the blocks have tiny corridors. 80% of students use the buses provided. Luckily our leaders are very seriously looking at every possible risk and you can tell they are utterly overwhelmed at coming up with any plan that might work. Each block is a specialist block as well so they cant just sit in one rooms for lecturers to move around.

I think if schools go back there needs to be a realisation that social distancing between pupils will be really really hard. Reception children will still play and teenagers will still hug/hold hands/share food. I just can't see it being enforceable.

Also I love teenagers but thinking about some of the classes I have taught before I can definitely imagine some of them licking things and coughing in your face as a way of misbehaving.

@user1471439240

8am - 8pm 😂 ??

What about teacher’s own children? Both DH and I are teachers. Include travel and we’d be out of the house from 6.45am until 9.15pm. I think that’s going a bit far, don’t you? We aren’t machine’s and our child needs his parents too.

If you are thinking about splitting the day for staff too, there wouldn’t be enough teachers. Because classes of 36 become classes of 12 and so more staff are needed to teach the same number of children.

As best, parents would have to expect massive disruption to their working lives.

For instance...if you’ve got 3 children aged 7, 9 and 12, they may all be in school on different days. At different times. Now you aren’t simply keeping them home, you are juggling them.

Meanwhile at school SD is out of the window. It really is. We’ll try of course, but it isn’t going to happen. Parents will have to boil wash uniform nightly, ensuring any virus contamination was killed on entering the home.

Then I worry that actually some children will be a lot worse off. For instance, right now, majority of teachers are uploading work to Google Classroom or similar. Work is marked, returned. Wellbeing calls are made and teachers are engaging. (Or at least they should be, so if this isn’t the case for your child, contact their school).
But, if staff are in school working with smaller groups, that’s a lot of children at home getting absolutely nothing.

I’m not sure this system would help anyone to be honest.

And what if maths teacher Mrs Jones, has her own two children 5 and 7 who require care, and they attend school on different days. How does Mrs Jones even come to work?

Then there’s key workers children. Do they come everyday still? Will additional staff be needed for those? Or do they go to a part timetable, causing childcare problems for our most needed workforce?

At best this system would give stay at home parents a break from their kids and children a bit of time with their friends and teachers, which is good for wellbeing.

At worst, it would become a logistical nightmare for working parents, whose employees now expect them to come to work because schools are open. And if your children attend school on different days and you always have to home to care for at least one of them, can you still be furloughed? Or does it then become a ‘choice‘ not to go to work and therefore how does it affect pay?

Life isn’t going to get any easier for working parents until school is back to how it was.

Then there is the question of employers being more flexible. This might be possible if you work in a supermarket, if you’re self employed or if you work as a carer.
But what if you are a teacher? A nurse/doctor? A police officer? Or what if your place of work can’t extend opening hours to allow for flexible shifts, because they are already struggling?

So what should happen? I have absolutely no idea.

Our school is preparing/trying to work it all out. They've sent a survey out to staff asking if they can return when required, if not why not, are they conferrable about going back and what do they feel needed for them to work safely.

We've been given as earliest return to date, but it's made clear that's not set in stone, and told years will be phased in

My son is due to start reception in September. I really can't imagine what it will be like. I hope they won't be discouraged from playing and not comforted when they cry. At the very least there won't be play dates or mixing with friends outside of school. It will be a really strange introduction to school.

Could the government not put more money in to something like what bbc bite size is doing with the daily lessons ,my son and I are watching them every day ,for his age group and the one above ,It’s 20 mins a day for each age group ,but that could be extended,and parents given the option to keep their child at home and learn that way.
I’m really hoping some on line permanent learning is offered ,my son is due to start a special school in September,and it’s going to be hell getting him there as he’s a school refuser with SEN and disability

Good point about the children of teachers if their children can only go to school part-time. Or if the teachers’ schools work at different times to their children’s schools.

I am a teacher with older children in a special school with school transport. I can’t get my head around the logistics.

I imagine some childcare providers will not return to work or will go out of business. I relied on a mix of nurseries, childminders and nannies to be able to work when the dc were younger and it was very hard to juggle even then.

I can see some teachers not being able to make it work at all with their family commitments.

I work in a large secondary of approximately 1500 pupils.
Our school building is a new build but we still have a narrow corridor in my department where social distancing isn't possible. We already operate a one way system on it but even then, it's packed at lesson change over.

Even with just one year group, with just one half having science at a time, that's around 125 students going down a corridor at the same time. We could potentially send them out of different exits but that wouldn't be possible in another department which has narrow corridors.

Lunch time makes me cringe. Just lining up for the canteen with social distancing is nigh on impossible.

I don't know what the answer is I suspect schools will be one of the places where people don't have to socially distance but take 'other measures' e.g. hand washing etc.

what they will do is change the rules.

1. They will say, you don't need to social distance. They will 'find' evidence says it is ineffective. [ Not true but that's what they will say]
2. There is no risk from children passing it to one another.
3. Children don't get the infection seriously.
4. They will say that teachers can socially distance from one another as best as can be practicable.

Job done.

That way, everything can get back to normal. They wont need to make any changes or they will be minimal.

I agree with all your points neveradullmoment99

But what happens when infections spike again and we're all in another lockdown. This will happen surely?

There’s talk already of dropping the two metre rule

So that’s what they’ll do

So there won’t be a social distancing issue

It’ll be

Wash hands
Temp before you leave
Stay home if unwell

Then all kids can go back together

It’s already on agenda

DC's school have suggested that they will run a one week in school, one week at home pattern so that they can run classes with half the number of children. "At home" children would continue with remote learning, as now.

And they will introduce a strict one way, social distancing system in corridors (which I guess can't be any worse that in busy supermarkets!)

I assume they will abandon the usual class groupings and just put children in groups however they best fit. Not sure how it will work for GCSE groups where there is only one class. But then not all children will potentially be coming in - not clear what those with underlying health conditions or who live with those who are vulnerable will do.

@pontypridd

But what happens when infections spike again and we're all in another lockdown. This will happen surely?

They will stop reporting about it.
I am a teacher. It fills me with dread but honestly, I totally think this is what they will do.

Here is what I would do in secondary:

A- M students in for first half of the day.
N - Z students in for second half of the day

Duplicate timetable for morning and afternoon focusing on core subjects.

Students are therefore taught in half classes and can sit one table away from each other.

One supervised break in tutor group classroom per morning/afternoon session.

No lunch break for students. Eg morning session ends at 12pm and Afternoon session starts at 1pm so that teachers get a lunch break.

No assemblies, no external visitors, students need to wear masks.

Stagger the year groups leaving lessons to minimise amount of people in the corridors.

What would be more problematic are children who are 'at risk'
Those with conditions. I am not sure how they will get round that but they will.

@myohmywhatawonderfulday they problem with that is how can people get back to work if children are at home or getting taken to school?
They may however start that way but they will be getting it back to the norm asap. Business rules the roost. We are mere babysitters.

When all is said and done, they will look for research that fits the governments narrative. It will be too expensive to make serious changes and probably fairly unrealistic.

My only saviour is that I am in Scotland and hoping Nicola will take a different attitude.

@neveradullmoment99 my ideas are for students in secondary school and so that is with the assumption that by age 11 they can look after themselves for part of the day and not rely on parents being off work to look after them.

She has already expressed she may deviate...

True, but they are still quite young at 11 imo.

They are also talking about doing similar in primary but how would that all work. I just cant see how it would unless its just to ease in.
We finish in late June. Hoping we wont go back until mid August. Happier even if we go back at the beginning of August. I just want it to be well thought out.