Any anti-vaxxers around?

[Hermano]

Just wondering if anyone who would normally consider themselves to be an anti vaxxer, who hasn't given their child eg MMR would mind sharing if they've changed their mind following covid? If they'd take a vaccine when one is available, give it to their children etc?

No reason other than idle curiosity, vaccines are in the news a lot at the moment. I'm not a journalist, just a furloughed and slightly bored parent interested in hearing world views which are different from my own.

If you're interested I'm a scientist who is happy with the evidence base for vaccines and use them myself and for my children

I'm a sheep although I was very scared and worried when DD had her MMR it wasn't up for choice knowing how measles left a colleagues DC severely disabled after he suffered encephalitis.
He died a few years later.

[quote ThisShitDontMatter]@RizzleDrizzle

When the fuck did I say autism isnt acceptable!? See this is what I cant stand, you have a subject obviously close to you - fine but then there is another issue where you are looking to be offended! So I cant have a question because you dont like it! I quickly googled genes and autism... do so yourself and you will see why I said about mutations... I believe vaccines can absolutely cause harm for some - be it whatever. Now Im years past online rows but I wasnt going to have you say I dont basically accept people who are different because what!? Soooo many people have such a hardon to be offended these days...[/quote]
Your years behind online arguments but you like to go online and spread shite about vaccines causing autism?

I’m pro vaccination but anti the nhs schedule
We have done ours totally differently
I have 2 dc with asd and one with multiple autoimmune issues (pre vaccines so no link). I wanted them protected but to our schedule so as not to overwhelm them due to their issues

Please stop with the whole MMR and autism thing. Just stop, it’s so upsetting and beyond offensive. Go and educate yourself on autism and what the possible causes of it might be. Here’s a handy hint IT IS NOT A FUCKING VACCINE.

Do you not think that parents of autistic children have enough on their plates, do you really want to add to their problems by saying that by vaccinating their children they may have caused it.

I know that this is not what this thread is about and I’m sorry to derail it but it so upsetting to read.

Not anti vaccine. In fact the opposite. Wanted to pay privately for a chicken pox vaccine as I didn't have chicken pox as a child but had to have an immunity check first and it was discovered I was immune. Must have had a very mild dose with no visible spots. Also pay privately every year for a flu vaccine and my children of course had all their vaccinations.

However I do feel a bit unsettled at the way questions about Coronavirus vaccines are shouted down. They are unlicensed. You have to sign a form saying you understand that prior to vaccination. The manufactures unlike other drug manufactures will not be financially liable for any health issues caused by them. And now they are not being given according to the manufactures guidelines. Perhaps if some of this wasn't hidden or questioning was allowed I wouldn't feel anxious. As it is I'm way down the list and more than happy that I will have to wait.

Oh here we go.
I have 3 kids. All vaccinated. Only one has autism. Guess the other 2 were just lucky eh......(rolls eyes)

[quote ThisShitDontMatter]@RizzleDrizzle

When the fuck did I say autism isnt acceptable!? See this is what I cant stand, you have a subject obviously close to you - fine but then there is another issue where you are looking to be offended! So I cant have a question because you dont like it! I quickly googled genes and autism... do so yourself and you will see why I said about mutations... I believe vaccines can absolutely cause harm for some - be it whatever. Now Im years past online rows but I wasnt going to have you say I dont basically accept people who are different because what!? Soooo many people have such a hardon to be offended these days...[/quote]
Where did I say you said autism was unacceptable do you have a problem with the plural you?!?! This isn’t a personal conversation this is a forum where any one can join in a conversation. And anyone can be addressed during the conversation,-and the person being addressed can change during a post. Do I really have to say your user name this bit is just for you personally and now everybody else this is for you as a whole. Indeed somebody else replied to me, understanding I was talking to everyone.

Why is it a problem it’s close to me? Also where am I offended? In fact ITS YOU that’s offended

You asked a question, I answered it, you said I see on google it’s caused by mutations - I replied no it’s a life long neurological developmental condition, because that’s what it is. I know what it says about mutations on google. I don’t need to look. I’ve done plenty of research reading plenty of contradictory articles, I ultimately have backed. Science because the overwhelming evidence is that it’s not mutations, it’s not vaccines.

You and yes I’m talking to you personally, can believe what you like about vaccines cause harm, up to you. However the facts the scientifically proven evidence is that when it comes to autism, that neither vaccines or mutations cause autism. I’m sorry they just don’t. You can believe they do, it doesn’t mean it scientific fact though.

As for people having a hard on for being offended the only person that’s got a hard on for being offended is you. Your the one who can’t engage in debate without calling insulting everyone! And you can ask a question but what you shouldn’t do is start being so offended because you don’t like the answer!

@ThisShitDontMatter

You bunch having a go at me are fucking thick as shit. Ive to go educate myself for spreading fear or whatever about vaccines? I said IF YOU FUCKING READ IT that I wondered if there was anything in it! I didnt even say if I was pro or not... I also said I wasnt here to offend anyone but now I just dont care. Arseholes. One of my children had the MMR for your bastarding information but keep sniping.

Yes yes that’s the way to get people to listen to your argument call everyone thick, call them arseholes

Talk about having a hard on for being offended

@MiniTheMinx

Neither of my DC had the MMR. I'm not anti- vaccines, I made a decision not to allow them to have MMR. I can't be bothered to argue or debate. I have an opinion on MMR. I have no reason to believe all vaccines are dangerous. Mine had single measles and rubella. If offered we will have the Covid vaccine.

Just a note of caution. I don't know how old your DC's are, but mumps is rife in uni, and therefore something you might want to look at later.

@Dowser

I had mumps, measles , rubella and whooping cough as a child. Mumps and whooping cough were very unpleasant but not life threatening. I don’t remember measles, so it can’t have been that bad and rubella I barely noticed.

Two grandchildren got measles. One never had a day of school and the other just took one day off.
They had one poorly day each and were fine for the rest of the time.

Well, those children should have been in isolation for 4/5 days to stop spread of infection, and measles is a notifiable disease. If it was diagnosed by a doctor That is the protocol.

@ThisShitDontMatter

Your going on about vaccines causing autism through mutations because of 'something you read on Google' and you're calling other people thick as shit?

In the 70's, several experts concluded that parenting was to blame for autism. I remember attending a lecture at Essex University where many parents were, naturally, very upset at being identified as being the cause of their child's condition. Fortunately, I believe this hypothesis is no longer seen as correct, but it does go to show that experts can be mistaken and opinions do vary and change over time. Autism has increased greatly since then and it's my understanding that the cause has still not been identified.

This growing movement to "other" anyone who is reluctant to have the Covid vaccine is, in my opinion, not only sinister but also counter-productive. It may well make individuals who have had the vaccine feel extremely virtuous and community-spirited, but deciding to have a vaccine is in reality based on a person's belief that it will benefit them personally and constitutes little risk.

Whipping up hostility by calling people "selfish" and "stupid" is, in my view, more likely to entrench feelings of fear and distrust.

Initially, experts were adamant in their view that, scientifically speaking, there was no way the virus could have been manufactured in a laboratory, but now that possibility is being explored. Is it any any wonder that some people are sceptical about the claims that are made on the basis of scientific expertise?

Autism is increasing because it's being diagnosed.

That's it.

@ellyeth

In the 70's, several experts concluded that parenting was to blame for autism. I remember attending a lecture at Essex University where many parents were, naturally, very upset at being identified as being the cause of their child's condition. Fortunately, I believe this hypothesis is no longer seen as correct, but it does go to show that experts can be mistaken and opinions do vary and change over time. Autism has increased greatly since then and it's my understanding that the cause has still not been identified.

This growing movement to "other" anyone who is reluctant to have the Covid vaccine is, in my opinion, not only sinister but also counter-productive. It may well make individuals who have had the vaccine feel extremely virtuous and community-spirited, but deciding to have a vaccine is in reality based on a person's belief that it will benefit them personally and constitutes little risk.

Whipping up hostility by calling people "selfish" and "stupid" is, in my view, more likely to entrench feelings of fear and distrust.

Initially, experts were adamant in their view that, scientifically speaking, there was no way the virus could have been manufactured in a laboratory, but now that possibility is being explored. Is it any any wonder that some people are sceptical about the claims that are made on the basis of scientific expertise?

Initially, experts were adamant in their view that, scientifically speaking, there was no way the virus could have been manufactured in a laboratory, but now that possibility is being explored.

Nope - it isn't being explored.

@Billie18

Not anti vaccine. In fact the opposite. Wanted to pay privately for a chicken pox vaccine as I didn't have chicken pox as a child but had to have an immunity check first and it was discovered I was immune. Must have had a very mild dose with no visible spots. Also pay privately every year for a flu vaccine and my children of course had all their vaccinations.

However I do feel a bit unsettled at the way questions about Coronavirus vaccines are shouted down. They are unlicensed. You have to sign a form saying you understand that prior to vaccination. The manufactures unlike other drug manufactures will not be financially liable for any health issues caused by them. And now they are not being given according to the manufactures guidelines. Perhaps if some of this wasn't hidden or questioning was allowed I wouldn't feel anxious. As it is I'm way down the list and more than happy that I will have to wait.

Neither my wife nor I were asked to sign anything prior to getting our AZ vaccine. She had hers done at a Bristol Hub, I had mine at local surgery. What were you asked to sign and for which vaccine?

@Busygoingblah

Autism is hugely genetic. I recommend anyone who is interested in the rise in cases reads Neurotribes by Steve Silverman. There are plenty of reasons the rate of ASD is rising and none of these are vaccine related.

It’s also interesting how many ASD traits you can often spot in parent’s of kids with autism. You know, like obsessively researching one topic online and becoming stuck on one viewpoint and unable to have a logically debate about it. A bit like anti vaxxers...

Absolutely. My husband has only recognised his own autism since our son was diagnosed.

And my husband comes from a developing country and did not have many childhood vaccinations whereas my son was fully vaxxed.

My children are fully vaccinated by I definitely won't be letting them have the Covid vaccine. The risk/benefit analysis doesn't stack up - who in their right mind would give their healthy child a new and experimental vaccine with no long-term safety data to combat a disease that hasn't killed any healthy children in the UK? A disease that most children don't even get symptoms of!

@Billie18

Not anti vaccine. In fact the opposite. Wanted to pay privately for a chicken pox vaccine as I didn't have chicken pox as a child but had to have an immunity check first and it was discovered I was immune. Must have had a very mild dose with no visible spots. Also pay privately every year for a flu vaccine and my children of course had all their vaccinations.

However I do feel a bit unsettled at the way questions about Coronavirus vaccines are shouted down. They are unlicensed. You have to sign a form saying you understand that prior to vaccination. The manufactures unlike other drug manufactures will not be financially liable for any health issues caused by them. And now they are not being given according to the manufactures guidelines. Perhaps if some of this wasn't hidden or questioning was allowed I wouldn't feel anxious. As it is I'm way down the list and more than happy that I will have to wait.

1. They are licensed
2. You don't have to sign any form
3. So? Who the fuck will pay for health issues caused by covid?
4. Guessing your referring to the gap between doses - as if that mattered in the way you're insinuating...

Seriously, quit listening to antivax propaganda - it's all bullshit.

@Billie18 you don’t sign anything prior to having the vaccine. Where did you get that idea? I presume you haven’t had it.

Someone I know who was previously anti vax has now had both of her covid jabs

I was raised by very anti vax parents and have never been vaccinated. The covid jab will be my first.

Not sure if I’d let my kids have it though. Maybe when it’s been around for a bit longer.

strangeshapedpotato
National Geographic: "Newly reported information has revived scrutiny of this possible origin for the coronavirus, which experts still call unlikely though worth investigating. .......................

"The renewed attention comes on the heels of President Joe Biden’s ordering U.S. intelligence agencies on May 26 to “redouble their efforts” to investigate the origins of the coronavirus. On May 11, Biden’s chief medical adviser, Anthony Fauci, acknowledged he’s now “not convinced” the virus developed naturally—an apparent pivot from what he told National Geographic in an interview last year.

"Also last month, more than a dozen scientists—top epidemiologists, immunologists, and biologists—wrote a letter published in the journal Science calling for a thorough investigation into two viable origin stories: natural spillover from animal to human, or an accident in which a wild laboratory sample containing SARS-CoV-2 was accidentally released. They urged that both hypotheses “be taken seriously until we have sufficient data,” writing that a proper investigation would be “transparent, objective, data-driven, inclusive of broad expertise, subject to independent oversight,” with conflicts of interest minimised, if possible."

New York Times: "“Damning” science strongly suggests that COVID-19 is a man-made monster, optimized in a lab for maximum infectivity before hitting the outside to catastrophic effect, two experts said Sunday."

I am not a scientist. I don't know either way whether it is possible that this virus could have been manufactured in a lab. What I'm saying is that there is now disagreement between various experts/scientists as to whether it is possible. But, initially, the narrative was that it was not scientifically possible for it to have been manufactured.

@ellyeth

strangeshapedpotato National Geographic: "Newly reported information has revived scrutiny of this possible origin for the coronavirus, which experts still call unlikely though worth investigating. .......................

"The renewed attention comes on the heels of President Joe Biden’s ordering U.S. intelligence agencies on May 26 to “redouble their efforts” to investigate the origins of the coronavirus. On May 11, Biden’s chief medical adviser, Anthony Fauci, acknowledged he’s now “not convinced” the virus developed naturally—an apparent pivot from what he told National Geographic in an interview last year.

"Also last month, more than a dozen scientists—top epidemiologists, immunologists, and biologists—wrote a letter published in the journal Science calling for a thorough investigation into two viable origin stories: natural spillover from animal to human, or an accident in which a wild laboratory sample containing SARS-CoV-2 was accidentally released. They urged that both hypotheses “be taken seriously until we have sufficient data,” writing that a proper investigation would be “transparent, objective, data-driven, inclusive of broad expertise, subject to independent oversight,” with conflicts of interest minimised, if possible."

New York Times: "“Damning” science strongly suggests that COVID-19 is a man-made monster, optimized in a lab for maximum infectivity before hitting the outside to catastrophic effect, two experts said Sunday."

I am not a scientist. I don't know either way whether it is possible that this virus could have been manufactured in a lab. What I'm saying is that there is now disagreement between various experts/scientists as to whether it is possible. But, initially, the narrative was that it was not scientifically possible for it to have been manufactured.

Sorry - but you really need to understand the argument you're making and it presently seems you don't.

I didn't say there was no discussion over whether or not it was leaked from a lab. I said man-made. No expert has even suggested this.

• Dr Fauci is not a virologist - he's a public health official.
• The scientists who contacted Science, did not suggest man-made.
• The NYT article is written by a reporter - NOT an expert.

Actual experts - virologists, who understand how viruses develop are at the last check 100% united in stating that the virus is of natural origins.

Whether or not it was gathered for study at the lab and subsequently escaped is another matter - quite possible, but there's no evidence for that either. The actual evidence points to the wet markets as all of the initial cases could be traced back to them.

I should add that the family tree for sars-cov-2 is very well documented now. People talk about the "named" variants, but these are just the more recently emerging variants of concern. The virus has gone through hundreds of mutations since it first emerged and these are all documented. In particular the very first variants which didn't last long would have made AWFUL biological weapons because they were simply not contagious!

It took a few mutations before the variant emerged that led first to the Wuhan lockdown and then the global pandemic. Quite clearly the virus was adapted to a different creature and once it moved into humans had to quickly adapt again before it became a real menace.

There's actually very little mystery here - it's only the fact that the public as a whole know nothing about viruses that this whole conspiracy theory is possible.

I wonder how anti vaxxers would feel if they lived in an undeveloped country where thousands of kids die of these awful prevented diseases at a very young age?

But they don’t need to worry as their precious children get their protection from OUR vaccinated kids 🤷‍♀️