How do you juggle childcare and working from home if your partner works, too?

[SoCloseToLosingIt]

If you have small children and both parents need to work from home, how do you do it?

We are taking turns: in the morning one looks after the kids while the other works, and viceversa in the afternoon. After putting the kids to bed, we both always have work to catch up on.

Surely we are not the only ones in this situation - how are other people managing it?

It is destroying us, but we can see no alternatives.

Taking days off would be worse because we would have more work to catch up on afterwards.

Part-time is not an option. It is not offered explicitly and, judging from the experience of colleagues who did it in the past, you risk getting 50% of the pay for 80% of the work.

We can't resign. We need the jobs. If we were sure everything will go back to normal in 3 months, we could even consider some kind of unpaid leave for a short period of time, but, with so much uncertainty, it seems wiser and more prudent to hold on to the jobs we have.

We have a nanny, that we continue to pay, but she is not coming - we feel making her come would be against government guidelines and common sense, because it would mean sharing the lockdown with her and her family, and I am not sure we can trust her entire family is behaving sensibly.

I don't know how much longer we can go on, to be honest. One more month like this might be manageable, but any longer would be a huge challenge. I strongly hope a softer lockdown will come, where maybe offices remain closed but at least the nanny can come (she can drive to ours).

Of course in a crisis like this everything must be put into context: we do appreciate how incredibly lucky we are that we continue receiving our salaries, and for office jobs which can be done from home - we are not risking our lives with no PPE or anything like that. But I was curious to hear from other people in similar situations.

[firstmentat]

@User202004
It is not that the management is not sympathetic - technically, I did not have a request refused yet, I am working flexible hours now and they allowed me to take 4 weeks of annual leave. Which normally would not be allowed, even honeymoons are max three weeks off.
It is that single women with young children are quite rare in my sector (finance, long hours culture etc) and I started getting helpful suggestions like - "why don't you talk to George, he's also a parent and seems to have nailed this wfh with kids, maybe he can share some tips with you". Yes, but how can I answer to that that George's children are young teens and his wife always stayed at home - this would (rightfully) be perceived as passive aggressive or contrarian. Which I am, to be honest, and I don't want to sound bad about George, as - truth to be told - he is picking up a lot of my responsibilities now.

[User202004]

@firstmentat I don't think that's very sympathetic and flexible, so you've got to take all your annual leave now? How will you manage the rest of the year without a break? And school holidays? (If they ever go back......!)

[TriangleBingoBongo]

My manager is totally understanding and from that POV I’m very lucky. She is a woman and a mother. My whole organisation is actually very understanding.

It’s still difficult in that I’m not being very productive and can’t work to deadlines. A colleague was discussing something time sensitive with me and I had to say I could only supervise and cannot commit myself. I just can’t say I can dedicate enough time to anything time sensitive. I’m picking up hours here and there. On a good week my son naps reliably and that gives me a couple of interrupted hours each day. But the other week he just wouldn’t nap so all work had to wait for the weekends when DH was home.

My office is open for exceptional circumstances. There is one person who is still there each day for post etc. I asked for a small favour and was told I’d need to come in and to it myself... thought that was easy for them to say but I’m on my own with a toddler.

Everyone applies their own circumstances when they’re assessing risk and what’s realistic work wise.

[LisaSimpsonsbff]

thing is it's not just parents, outputs are going to be lower because many people are stressed, working in new environments, managers shouldn't need to have experienced something to be empathetic and need to realise this is bigger than a childcare issue

The thing is, though, it's that attitude itself that I'm finding tough - the 'oh it's just as hard for us all'. That comes up a lot in work meetings, if anyone says about challenges for parents someone else will say how it's hard for us all at the moment and everyone will sagely nod. I think my colleagues honestly, genuinely think that dropping shopping round for their gran once a week is the same as my childcare responsibilities - we both have caring responsibilities! - and that makes it seem like I'm just not trying as hard. Of course it's hard for everyone but it is also, in the vast majority of cases, much harder for parents of young children.

[LisaSimpsonsbff]

*some of my colleagues, that should have said

[User202004]

@LisaSimpsonsbff I'm a manager to people with and without children, it's important I'm supporting all staff. They need different things to support them at this time, but what I've got to recognise is this is difficult for everyone in different ways and outputs will be down across the board. I say this as someone who is juggling childcare and work. It's not about who has it worse, but employers need to acknowledge outputs are going to be low across the board and figure out what are they going to do about it. As I say I work for an excellent organisation who I think has resolved it excellently, but obviously it will be sector specific.

[HouseTornado]

Agree with so much of this. It's absolutely harder with children and WFH. Yes, I love my son, no, I'm not dismissing the issues others have, nor am I moaning about now 'having to look after him' as people are so fond of saying on here.

But I am also a professional, and as much as I am (and my partner too) making the best of this, the reality is that it is my career that is suffering right now.

The hardest thing is my working day being spread over 14 hours. The constant interruption and switching between work/son/chores means my concentration span has totally declined.

[Notlostjustexploring]

I think I'm lucky and that although my manager doesn't have children, he has young children in his life and he wants to be sympathetic.
I think people just don't understand things that aren't right in front of them, so I show the reality of what my life is like at the moment. I make sure that my children can be heard on teleconferences before I mute myself. I ask people to repeat questions to me because I had a child shouting in my ear at the time so didn't hear. I send my emails at all sorts of stupid times. It's hard to be honest about it initially, because for so long I was basically trying to do the "work as though you had no children". But like others, my performance is going to suffer this year, and it is good to have it crystallised in others' brains the very good reason why. And it's hard trying to remind people without worrying that you are coming across as a whiner.

[SoCloseToLosingIt]

"The thing is, though, it's that attitude itself that I'm finding tough - the 'oh it's just as hard for us all'."
"I think people just don't understand things that aren't right in front of them"

Yes, precisely. These are the attitudes that make me foam at the mouth with rage. The arrogance of people thinking: "no, I have never lived that situation, but so what, how much of a big deal can it possibly be?". Oh, the arrogance of that...

It's like me having the arrogance and the stupidity to say: "No, I don't have children with special needs, but so what, what's the big deal, how different can that be, if I managed with non-special needs children so can you". It's exactly the same.

I get it that some jobs just don't have much flexibility. If you must answer the phone at a call centre from 8 to noon, that's your shift, you cannot do it after the kids go to bed. I get that.
But there are also many jobs which are in theory results-driven. If I have to deliver some work, it shouldn't matter if I send it at noon or at 11pm after the kids go to bed. Instead no, it seems to matter, because people cannot possibly understand why someone with young children should possibly need more flexibility.

At the end of the day I am not asking to receive the same pay for doing half the job. I am simply asking that my productivity should be measured sensibly, on whether I did a good job, not on whether I sent it at 5pm or at 11pm.

Will this ever change? My humble opinion is no, not in this generation.

1. There are many studies showing that personality traits like manipulation and lack of empathy actually help you get promoted, and suggesting that sociopaths are probably very overrepresented in the management ranks compared to the general population (ever read 'Snakes in suits'?)
   
   
2. Things might only start to change if/when there will be enough parents in the workplace who share childcare responsibilities with a working partner. Look around you. How many women bosses do you see? How many male colleagues with stay at home wives? Exactly. So, by the time our daughters enter the workplace, maybe. Now? No, at least not outside few, isolated and unrepresentative cases.

[HouseTornado]

Wow, no idea why my post looks like such a mess.

Probably a bit tired...and a bit angry.

[LisaSimpsonsbff]

I agree, of course, that you have to manage and support all of your team @User202004 - I just think that saying 'there will be a drop in productivity across the board' erases the different level of challenge different people are facing (and I'm not at all saying that parents are all and necessarily in the group facing the most challenges, or that non-parents aren't). It won't be 'across the board', it'll reflect individual circumstances and not acknowledging that makes it seem like it's a reflection of individual effort or ability instead.

I do think it's a very tough situation for employers and managers - normally I would be the first to say that people without children shouldn't be picking up work for those without children just because of their child-free status. I really do imagine it is pissing some of my team off that I'm clearly, visibly putting in fewer hours than them but still being paid my full salary, and I have sympathy for that. I just don't know what the alternative is at the moment, though - I just can't do my 'fair' share of work but it is unfair and I don't know how you square that circle.

[SoCloseToLosingIt]

Yes, I agree with you.

I would be willing to accept a PROPORTIONAL reduction in salary and workload. I can't even think of proposing it because workload and deliverables in my field are so impossible to measure objectively that I know I'd get **ed even more - I would end up with something like 66% of the pay and 90% of the workload, and it would be impossible to prove, because it will be impossible to prove objectively how long each task should take.

I also have zero sympathy for those who think they deserve special treatment at work for the very subjective choices they made and which no one forced on them. You wanted to have 4 kids and live 40 miles from work because you wanted a big garden? Well, who forced you? How did you think you were going to handle work? I am not going to do more work than you just because I settled for a smaller house, but closer. But here it's different - the quarantine messed up all the childcare plans we all had.

We'll have to think long and hard about when to bring back the nanny...

[eurochick]

You have a solution available - get your nanny to come back to work. It will be better for you and better for the children.

Our nanny never stopped working. We both work full time in full on jobs. We couldn't have maintained those and stopped our child from going completely feral without at least part time childcare. In terms of coronavirus, we've minimised the risk as much as possible. We are both working from home and only go out to the supermarket or for exercise. Her household is the same. We are scrupulous with hygiene and so is she. We distance from her to the extent possible.

I do sympathise on the work situation. Most of my colleagues of similar seniority have non working wives at home. I'm the only senior woman. And my husband's job is as full on as mine. They don't get it.

[KinderWild]

School for Mothers is gathering feedback on the impact on mothers schooling/ caring for children (and working from home). They'll be putting a report together for the The Women and Equalities Committee.

Posting in case anyone wanted to contribute.

forms.office.com/Pages/ResponsePage.aspx?id=BO7fr_qaIUmJCVUBAq7ahpqBssudoeZOkk2OYquKaK9UQVFDM1VROUZUMDRZUEpWTEdQOEtRWTRJVC4u&fbclid=IwAR1kvMimFc3n7M6fgGeqcQzfUgJH847R85EXbt6iyqsA-HHUDBSTD6_wu9s

[zerocraic]

How's everyone doing this week? Getting easier or still struggling?
Still very hard here and can't switch off.

[TriangleBingoBongo]

I’m really struggling. I tried to approach my boss, I emailed which was then followed with a call. I explained my husband is still working and leaving the house at 7am, when he returns at 4/5 I still need to shower, one of us needs to cook. Nevermind logging back into work. DS 14months. I was totally dismissed. Didn’t even discuss it, listened and moved on to work related stuff.
I asked nursery if they could help. They said no because only one key worker.
No furlough at my job and not a key worker so not entitled to childcare. I wouldn’t even mind going unpaid.

[zerocraic]

@Triangle that's a farcical situation. 14 months old is just impossible to work around. Really sorry for you.

[Cheeseycheeseycheesecheese]

@TriangleBingoBongo, Zero is right, that's utterly ridiculous! I'm in a similar situation, dh still going to work and no childcare. I lasted 3 days wfh with my 10 month old, before I called my manager because I was struggling. She spoke to the business owner who suggested furlough.

Could you go higher up?

[TriangleBingoBongo]

I have wondered. Nursery said the Gov are reviewing childcare on Thursday.

I can’t get furlough as public sector.

[Mylittlepony374]

I have a 1 and a 3 year old. Working from home. Husband working. Basically my kids are feral and being raised by screens. It can't continue much longer.

[TokyoSushi]

Just coming on here to agree, it's really hard!

Mine are 7 & 9 so a bit easier, but I'm WFH full time and DH is a full-time keyworker, so out all day Monday - Friday, which obviously means that I'm on my own, with 2 x DC, trying to do full-time home school and a full-time job.

I'm fortunate that they're both well behaved and reasonably bright academically so I've just kept the homeschooling ticking along as much as I can. Mainly from purchased workbooks for their age group rather than elaborate science experiments and the like that other people are showing off on Facebook about. I'm afraid that screens are involved a lot of the time, but if the DC have too much screen time for a few weeks then so be it, if I lose my job - we're buggered!

I also work for a very small (but cash-rich) company (pharmaceutical) where most people are parents so the trials and tribulations are well understood.

If I had toddlers, or a horrible boss or whatever it would be a complete and utter nightmare!

[Travelban]

Still plugging away and I am so glad it's thr weekend. Having a break right now, having been in cong calls since 8am non stop. Kids all behaving today, although they did come with messages whilst I was on thr phone. I had last Friday off as leave which really helped as I started to feel frazzled and short tempered.

I feel that there is a light at the end of the tunnel so trying to keep positive. Also planning to have may half term off, so that's my goal, short term!!