How can businesses slowly re-open if schools don't go back?

[trumpisaflump]

I've been thinking about this all day. A few of my friends are taking great delight I think in forecasting that schools won't go back until August (Scotland). And even at that it will be part time classes to allow social distancing. So an I wrong in thinking if this is correct them business will not be able to return as families/parents will have children at home?
It's been going through my mind all day and I don't know how we can have one without the other. Any ideas?

that is more than a single pensioner (who has to cover all the bills) who forced to stay in gets per week hmm

I’m a year away from retirement and my daughters live away from home now so I have no horse in this race but to be fair most pensioners to me seem to have few real expenses and sit in their bums watching telly and gardening (I certainly will be) it’s not like having kids with all the expenses

As a single able bodied parent I would rather the nurseries reopen so I can return to work and pay my keep and put taxes in the system, rather than rely on the benefit system, when others need it more.

To say only child free or coupled up families should be able to return to work is ludicrous.
Single mothers have a hard enough time as it, to expect them to “rely on the welfare state” is not only massively damaging to their own self esteem and mental health and well being, it also makes them virtually unemployable, as employers wouldn’t want to hire them if there is a second lockdown and it’s business as usual for everyone except those that solely rely on nurseries and or schools to be able to go to work.

Forcing hundreds of thousands of children into reliance on benefits and poverty is one of the dumbest ideas I’ve ever heard on here.

And that’s saying something.

But until schools open and teachers feel safe this is what will happen. This gov need to focus on helping schools get ready and a LOT faster than they for ppe to hospitals

Those workers unable to return to work due to lack of childcare will (imo) be left to the welfare system to sort out

And that's when people will start ignoring social distancing and turn to friends / family for childcare.
If people are faced with JSA / UC or taking risks they'll take the risks to keep their jobs.

While I don't believe furlough can last in its current form I don't think the government will be daft enough to completely pull the rug from individuals feet.
Too many people ending up with reduced income, too many mortgages repossessions, too many people needing social housing, mean while the private market have loads of empty houses and goes into freefall.
The government have to work and prop up the economy one way or another.

How many years did it take to pay off debt from the 2 world wars? This could be the same. Massive debt to be paid off.

@Blackbear19 exactly. One of the big reasons not to shut schools was children going to grandparents for childcare.

If schools/nurseries don’t open there will be a tipping point where families are faced with children losing their home is grandparents taking the risk and providing childcare.

Thanks to those posters who think we should give up careers at the drop of a hat due to a virus. I moved in with my parents at the start of this lockdown so they could help us with the kids. I certainly will not be giving up my career that I have worked hard for all these years because of this. Ridiculous to even suggest that.

Thanks to those posters who think we should give up careers at the drop of a hat due to a virus

This is why people will start to question just how much we are expected to give up when for the majority of people the risks are pretty small.

@goshdarnitjanet agreed. The risk to me is small, and many others, why should we give up everything we’ve worked for?

We also have to remember the aim of lockdown was to flatten the curve, not stop the curve.

Thanks to those posters who think we should give up careers at the drop of a hat due to a virus. I moved in with my parents at the start of this lockdown so they could help us with the kids. I certainly will not be giving up my career that I have worked hard for all these years because of this. Ridiculous to even suggest that.

I don't want to give up my hard won career either. Undergraduate and post graduate degree and I'm in a highly specialised job. However if my DH is able to start back work and schools don't return at the same time or return part time I'm not sure what options my manager has apart from sacking me. I can't work from home and my DH earns more than me and employs staff so he would return to work before me.

Grandparents aren't an option as they are both over 70. No other childcare options are open and I presume won't open until schools reopen.

@trumpisaflump

Don’t give up your career, whatever happens . Your children have two parents and you will BOTH have to work out something.

If they lift lockdown for 20-30 year olds then hire one to watch your kids, if that’s allowed. Or both go part time.

Do not I repeat NOT allow you husband to opt out of his responsibilities for the children. Don’t let this become your problem to solve. This is how woman’s careers get fucked.

Men earn 13% more even in the same job. Women take time off for mat leave and then go part time. Men like not having the work or responsibility for the grunt work of childcare and housework. Then when things get stressed, women quit their jobs to focus on his career “ it makes sense because he earns more “.

Men then complain about having all the financial responsibility. When all kids are at school, they get resentful that she has some time off in the day while he has only a couple of hours.

Suddenly he demands she gets on of those mythical well paid, school hours only jobs that give all the school holidays and inset days off. She knows they don’t exists and also that she will still have 100% of children / house as well.

Resentment builds.

You see where this is going .

Don’t do it. You might think you are making a brave sacrifice for your husbands sake but he won’t appreciate it in the long term.

The divorce courts are full of men who “ allowed “ their wives to be a SAHM because “ that’s what she wanted “ and who claim they never agreed. However it’s the men who Walk off with the well paid career and the pension and the women and kids who are on benefits.

Have you ever wondered why there’s no men here on MN worried about childcare? Is every single woman on MN a widow ?

No we are all stressed about it because the fathers of our kids don’t think it’s their issue.

I wonder where the men’s rights posters are on this thread. The ones who pop up everywhere saying

“ that’s not what you’d say if the OP was a man “
“ fathers have as many rights as mothers “
“ MN is so anti men “

They’re not here because childcare isn’t their problem . Yes they have kids. But they also have someone who deals with that for them.

@NotMyNigel great post

Not my Nigel, I read your post and was cringing as you almost describe what happened to albeit years ago in the 90s.
My dh was happy to pass it all to me when the kids were young as he couldn't work and look after them but I could give up my job and that suited him.
when I struggled to find a job as they got older he was getting arsy that he had ' always worked' .. etc etc and by the time I'd followed his career around moving about to suit him it was ' you can get a job now!'
I'd given up a lot but was made to feel that wasn't as important as his job was.
We worked through it and he did appreciate my sacrifices , but there was always that underlying jealousy that I could be at home and he couldn't!
Things worked out in the end , but so many women end up giving up everything then getting flamed when they can't contribute financially as well. I did find work to fit in with the kids but it took years and none of it is easy! I admire women that carry on full time but usually it's grandparents helping out that can make it happen rather than wrap around care which is only good for school hours usually as well. Childcare is enormously difficult and expense to sort out. We didn't have any family help at all.

Men are incredibly selfish and although it did work out for us for many it just doesn't.
The stay at home v working outside the home argument is never ever black or white but it usually the women that get screwed over I'm afraid. Just taken me years to realise this! I can understand why some very young people ( in their 20s) are not bothering having children and many more won't after this pandemic either I think!

The virus health emergency will make it even harder and many people will be down to one income as well but not through choice as our decisions were. This will make life even harder for women to carry on as it will be the women expected to give up the career and not the men.

@NotMyNigel thanks for this and you're absolutely spot on. My DH hasn't for a second suggested I give up my job and he would go part time if needed. Not every family has this flexibility though so I do worry about those who might lose their jobs if schools don't return at the same time as businesses.
I'm just catastrophising everything this weekend I think as I'm feeling quite anxious and low about how things will progress. I would never give up my job!

I'm just catastrophising everything this weekend I think as I'm feeling quite anxious and low about how things will progress. I would never give up my job!

Yup. And I bet your Dh hasn’t given his job a second thought. Maybe time for a hard conversation with him. At least you will hear what his plans are . Beyond “ I don’t know , my wife will deal with it “.

My experience is that the more senior and well paid you are, the more flexibility you have.

Unlike on MN where everyone’s husband has a Very Important Job that isn’t subject to Uk employment law. You know the special Mens Jobs that never allowed any flexibility or WFH. Until one month ago of course.

Funny that.

@trumpisaflump I totally understand on the catastrophising, me too. I am really angry at the moment, not sure who with tbh but everything feels really unfair. I won’t be giving up my job either. I earn the same as DH for 4 days work and so I’m really the main breadwinner if one of us had to quit and I’d go full time. I am really hoping that is not the case though as we have both sacrificed a lot to get where we are and done this not only for our own career satisfaction but the future security of our family. It will take a lot for me to give that up. I just don’t think we could manage on one income - it’s not like we spend half our take home pay each month on luxuries! And people are also forgetting the impact on pensions and your life post retirement if only one of you has one from your job.

Not every job has flexibility and employers can be ruthless in getting rid of people, male or female.
They want people who can and will do the job they need, to the level required in the timescales needed. A fulltime job can't be done in 3 or 4 days without cutting corners or employing someone else to plug the gaps.

Couples will most likely sacrifice one job to protect the other, why put both jobs in jeopardy?
But as a nation we have an economy and tax system built on 2 parents working.

I think ultimately they have to hit a balance between the NHS having enough PPE, beds and capacity to deal with Covid 19 and the rest of us getting back fo work.

notmynigel

Spot on

Yes Nigel!!

My eldest has already been offered a job after lockdown for childcare with a local family until she hopefully goes to uni. Plenty of y13s ready to work. Pls people start finding them x

New girls I don't see the logic in paying children to look after other children when qualified adult child care staff are sat at home?

And if an issue crops up, sibling squabbles to kids taking ill or a nasty injury is a 13 yo fully capable of dealing with it?

Ah no I meant year 13 - 18year olds.

Ideal for anyone who needs an extra pair of hands at home, au pair style.

Great if adults want to do it of course! I am sure there will be job opportunities for professional childcare as some won’t want to return to nursery, or school is part time etc

There will be lots of uni students whose courses finished early and now don’t have summer jobs . Many have childcare experience and some also have first aid qualifications and up to date police checks.

You might think twice about leaving a baby with an unqualified 21 year old but should be fine for primary school aged kids.

Teaching students have now finished but no schools to go to.

Medical, nursing and dental students have no summer school because no patients.

Both of these will have police checks and experience with children.

Only final year students are helping in the NHS.

@Blackbear19 - childcare staff on furlough are not allowed to work.

Construction sites are allowed to open & they're not key workers
So if one works in construction one works as key worker they will need childcare?