Risk to under 20’s

[Alex50]

So five people have died from Covid who are under 20 so far in the UK, 3 of those had under lying health issues, so only 2 with unknown health issue have died. There are over 4 million school age children in the UK. Do you think children are at risk if they return to school? Children are the least at risk category, surely a strategy should be put in place so they can return to school?

Eviltwins I don't know where to start with that one. Who are these teachers who boast about being key workers while clapping the NHS? Seriously? I do everything I am currently being asked to do, including volunteering on a rota. I don't know many of us who can afford to refuse to return to work when schools reopen. But that doesn't mean we have to demand/expect/hope that schools reopen before the government instructs that we should, or that we can't be worried about the consequences to ourselves or others from some badly hatched plan.
What a strange bout of unfounded teacher bashing from an actual teacher.

Eviltwins I don't know where to start with that one. Who are these teachers who boast about being key workers while clapping the NHS? Seriously?

Exactly. Bloody weird

Believe me, I know several in RL. Lots on twitter - lots of “I won’t be going back to work - it’s not safe” There are plenty on MN threads too! You don’t have to look hard -lots of teachers saying that they won’t be returning to work until it can be guaranteed that it is “safe”. And so they sit at home, clapping the NHS on a Thursday, ordering things online, going to the supermarket, and seeing themselves as somehow “other” when compared to the many many key workers who are at work every day.

When schools go back, we’ll need to go back.

Evil you are way off the mark even comparing a superman with a school.

What are you doing these days Evil - sitting at home (well the government want me to), going to supermarket (ditto; a lot less often too than I'd like), clapping the NHS (opinions mixed on this but many support it), ordering online (trying to stick to essentials and the delivery driver drops the parcel off and is 4m away before I open the door). Are you doing something different to all this? I'm different to other key workers in that the building I worn in is mostly shut, and I work from home - I would only view myself as a KW on days on rota in school. What would you actually like us to do differently?
Actually I'm just going back to the as this is doing my head in.

When schools go back, we’ll need to go back.

I know no teachers - even those who are vulnerable - who would for one moment hesitate to go back once we are told to go.

I do know that many will be very scared, and worried for those they live with and care for, but none will refuse.

I don't, however, think it unreasonable to ask for a single, national, well-worked out risk management plan which takes real schools into account, that is communicated in good time and implemented and funded in full.

I don't think we'll get one. We will have to have weeks and weeks of the same appalling uncertainty that we had in the final week we were open - staff disappearing from 1 day to the next, rotas endlessly changing, children being whisked into or out of classes throughout the day, new guidelines after every lesson. I don't think it makes me unreasonable to ask for a plan, however.

(I also wonder who will take over the manufacture of critical PPE for many healthcare and other settings, as IME both locally and elsewhere, thousands of masks and hundreds of scrubs are being made in or co-ordinated through school premises by members of school staff and other volunteers)

The difference, eviltwins, is that my smallest class is 31 pupils and my largest 34. There are over 1400 pupils in my school and social distancing is impossible.

I (and none of the teachers I know) are sitting at home twiddling our thumbs. I am working still. Daily I set work, check work, Mark work, email pupils, chat with pupils suffering with mental health issues and liaising with parents. The department have a meeting via teams every week for a couple of hours .Many colleagues are in work (I live with two vulnerable adults and my head took me off the rota as he know we are working at home).

I would love to go back - but I want it to be safe for all - the pupils, the teachers, the support staff, the bus drivers, the train conductors, the parents, the grandparents ....

It won’t be safe for all for a very long time. You can’t get the risk down to zero. Are we waiting for a vaccine then before we open schools?

It won’t be safe for all for a very long time. You can’t get the risk down to zero. Are we waiting for a vaccine then before we open schools?

Nope! More testing ability and the RO value having wriggle room.

But children are carriers and they live with adults who may be shielding or have vulnerable conditions - or like me, a healthy 39-year-old who has been very ill with Covid for over four weeks and I don't want to catch it again!

Maybe if they increased testing and carried out antibody tests, I would feel a bit more reassured.

I just think there's disparity in areas too. A differnce between spacious, possibly affluent, areas with few cases and inner city comps in high risk areas. The landscape can look very different based on where you live.

My one son's secondary is in an urban area, with lots of deprivation with little outdoor space, so they have to drive in a mini bus to access fields, relevant as there was talk of following the Finish 'outdoor' model. It's densley populated, 95% of the school and many staff are from a BAME demographic, with many of his classmates living in multi-generational households. This is relevant as the previous poster spoke about children possibly bringing the virus into households.

Our area has been hit very hard and you cannot compare areas like for like. What may work in Devon may not work in Brent.

Finnish!

I'm shielding but I have two kids. One in yr 6 and one in year 2. When they are due to go back, I have no idea what to do. They both have SN so they really benefit from the structure. It will be impossible to distance myself from them, but unfair on them if they weren't to go back as soon as they can, especially for the transition for the yr 6

What about if everyone was tested before they entered school? Not sure if this would be possible?

They also do temperature tests in other countries, not sure how helpful it is?

There isn't the capacity in the system to keep testing everyone in school, but I think increased testing capacity is definitely part of the answer, to enable cases to be identified quickly before they turn into an outbreak that sweeps through the entire school. I also think that when a case is identified, the authorities need to be prepared to shut down schools at short notice for a few days while they identify contacts and test them. I also think there need to be strict rules (backed by criminal sanctions) against sending a child to school when you have reason to believe someone in the household may be infectious with COVID-19.

the authorities need to be prepared to shut down schools at short notice for a few days while they identify contacts and test them

Exactly - and remind me again how this enables 'people to get back to work' and 'the economy to get moving again'?

Basically, if we go back soon, any child's schooling is like to to consist of a few days or weeks of part time attendance, followed by a period of closure, then repeat.

If we wait for a REALLY low infection number, then although the system will be the same - close down on cases etc - then each child's attendance will be much more continuous because the chance of coming into contact with one of the few cases is that much smaller.

Regional variations - ie closure of whole school areas and re-lockdown in response to an outbreak - also seem likely.

Just read the guardian article about other countries
Masks in china and taiwan ((and sat apart))
Italy and spain not thinking of going back yet
Denmark only younger pupils 10 to a class.

Only Sweden pushing through.

Our deaths are similar to italy spain.

Even in these countries some parents arent happy / theyre concerned.
Oh and in preschool they were in groups under 6 and were cleaning doorhandles etc twice a day.

Thing is uk just seems to take parts of info it wants (schools in world going back) not the reality of how.
People saying china data wrong but if you only do half a job you get a different result.
If you want schools back then
You find the staff and classrooms for 10 in each
You source all the masks for students and teachers
You pay cleaners to clean surfaces multiple times a day

It is all possible as other countries have done it.

A bit like the opening of the government's COVID testing booking system - its is open! Whoops, too many people - it's closed! Oh no, bad PR - open. Whoops, still too many people - closed again!

Except rather than just being able to close the computer system, we'll be talking cases and deaths.

I’m teaching 10am-4pm via zoom. If I was at work, I’d be teaching 10am-4pm in person.

My point is that plenty of people are actually at work, doing jobs which bring them into contact with other people. In hospitals, nurses, doctors and other HCP are up close with patients who really do have the virus. And I know plenty of teachers who clap on Thursdays then sit back and say “not me though - it’s ok for the nurses/postmen/delivery drivers/supermarket workers to put themselves at risk because I need them. Not me though - I’m more important” That’s what I’m on about and that’s what winds me up.

But EvilTwins, it's not just about individual teachers. Re-opening schools will affect transmission rates for the virus throughout the country, affecting everyone whether they have a connection with a school or not.

It's not about being more important ffs. Its about risk and numbers if you fail to see its a bit different being in tight corridors which you can't socially distance in vs a shop with perspex screens and normal adult behaviour not children's then you really do lack critical thinking.

i keep reading people saying that asthma doesnt mean someone is higher risk my 5yr old asthmatic DS only has to get a simple cold and he needs hospitalised, hayfever can hospitalise him i dread to think what a virus that attacks the lungs would do to him and he isnt even classed as being severely asthmatic.

Teachers would need PPE, the NHS are struggling to get enough PPE and care homes dont have any at all so where are we finding the extra for teachers?

I completely agree we cant live in lockdown forever and we need to find a way to live with covid but its not like we have been in lockdown for that long in the grand scheme of things so why cant people just stay at home and accept that for now that is what needs to be done and stop trying to push for schools to go back, shops to open, life to return to normal?

I miss my mum and my step daughter, my children miss their friends, my partner cant work so financially we are not in a good place and i want lockdown to end but more than that i want us all to be alive.

Still at it Eviltwins - there are many many people clapping for the NHS (or just generally thinking how brave they are) who are not out at work - why not mention all the people working from home, those cowards?! I could not do the job of a doctor, fire fighter, police officer etc - I already know I'm not brave enough. (still fairly brave to teach teenagers normally, I would say )
It does not sound like you are working in a regular school environment tbh so maybe have a listen to what those who are, are saying?