Risk to under 20’s

[Alex50]

So five people have died from Covid who are under 20 so far in the UK, 3 of those had under lying health issues, so only 2 with unknown health issue have died. There are over 4 million school age children in the UK. Do you think children are at risk if they return to school? Children are the least at risk category, surely a strategy should be put in place so they can return to school?

Children have v v tiny risk of harm from COVID

• but considerably higher risk of damaging their socialisation & education if they miss school for much longer

I would rather they play outside with a few friends see how that goes. I think play is better for socialisation

Finland knows how to do pretty much everything well. Including education - much better than in a lot of other countries.
Although we cannot compare the UK to Finland in any way, shape or form, the Finish approach should be considered when looking at success rates and safety aspects. . They are not back at school yet.
There’s isn’t one common element between the two countries but surely it is something to observe. Alongside other countries of course. Germany is probably closest in certain terms but again the two cannot be compared like for like.
We can only draw on experience of countries where reporting is transparent. And we need to look at both successful containment as well as disastrous results to try and start making a plan.

I saw a study that suggested that transmission outside was far lower than inside. Denmark is conducting a lot of its lessons outside so this would need to be factored in if looking at their data.

England- we sold off our playing fields

Great post from cantkeepawayforever. I see lots of posts where people seem to think the issues around schools reopening relate only to pupils, school staff and their families. Important though all those things are, reopening schools will have a much wider impact because, as cantkeepawayforever has explained, reopening schools opens up lots of transmission routes for the virus. It therefore increases the risk for everyone, not just families with schoolchildren or school staff.

As does opening up shops, businesses, gatherings etc. If schools stay shut then everything needs to stay shut and we stay in lockdown. How long is that sustainable for?

As does opening up shops, businesses, gatherings etc. If schools stay shut then everything needs to stay shut and we stay in lockdown.
This makes no sense

If schools stay shut then everything needs to stay shut Nonsense! There is clearly scope for relaxing some of the rules without a mass reopening of schools.

If schools do reopen on a part time phased opening on a rotation basis, exactly how many people will that allow to go back to work in any meaningful way?

If children are low risk, there’s no point in keeping schools shut long term when you open up other areas of society. That doesn’t make sense.

@Cantkeepawayforever. I don't know if teachers would get PPE but if they can, the HCP deaths weren't in groups exposed to high viral load and prioritised for PPE so PPE does work if used correctly. And/or those staff in 'high risks' areas are likely to be more rigourous in their own approach to infection control at work.

They weren't ICU Drs or nurses but in 'lower risk groups' in other areas, GPs, paeds, surgeons, social care workers, pharmacists, Psychiatrists, admin, dentists, nurses in 'low risk ' areas who probably weren't using PPE.

And there's no way of telling whether they caught COVID at work or not.

If if bloody If @delatron

www.newscientist.com/article/mg24632783-400-could-the-coronavirus-trigger-post-viral-fatigue-syndromes/

We may expect to see an outbreak of post-viral fatigue syndromes in some people who have had covid-19, according to some researchers.

They don't know yet and won't for quite a while and by time they do school will clearly be back - but the assumption that if you're not dying from Covid 19 everything is fine may not be true.

I'd be happier if the actual health risks for everyone - inclduing those of us with underlyng conditions like asthma - were a bit clearer and risk of infection as low as possible - hopefully testing and contact tracing will actullay be put in place to help with this.

That doesn't mean I not concerned about my Y10's education and how much she appears to be missing compared to otehr pupils in other schools or anout my Y6 missing out of transition period and covering last few primary topics.

There’s no if about it. Otherwise we’d have seen thousands of children dying.

If schools stay shut then everything needs to stay shut and we stay in lockdown.

A business could open by having staggered / flexible shifts to work around availability and stagger use of public transport, only parents without caring responsibility travelling into work while others wfh / decent social distancing ?

A shop can open for more limited hours, with social distancing measures in place, with screens around tills, with rotas that take into account caring needs?

There are very few businesses that require all staff to be present on the premises exactly during school hours, and are staffed only by parents with primary aged children and with no other adult at home, so many businesses could open much more than in 'lockdown' [even if not 'normally'] without a single school re-opening.

There’s no if about it. Otherwise we’d have seen thousands of children dying.

As been said death is a low bar

It’s like an accurate perception of risk has gone out of the window with this virus.

Oh and completely ignoring all the stats and research being done.

Oh and completely ignoring all the stats and research being done.*

You are being deliberately obtuse that is not the case at all.*

I am a teacher. I am desperate to get back to work. I do teach in a specialist provision setting though and have only 30 students, all aged 16-19 so I accept my viewpoint is skewed by that.

However, the students I teach are miserable. They are stressed about their progress, are missing social interactions, are worried, not sleeping, very up and down in terms of mood. I don’t think that the impact on mental health, particularly for teenagers, can be underestimated.

There is no evidence that children are “super spreaders”. I think it suited the government at the time to say these sorts of things as it supported their snap decision (too late IMO) to close schools.

However, I think we need to start opening them again. I have yr 9 DTDs and I will absolutely send them to school the moment they can go. They are desperate to get back.

Unpopular view (donning tin hat) but teachers who stand outside their houses on a Thursday night and applaud the NHS, proudly saying the are “key workers” because they set online work each day but now say they will refuse to go back to work because of their own safety are hypocrites. Why clap for the nurses and claim you’re doing “your bit” if you’re not going to actually do your bit when asked? Why are you more important than the nurses, HCAs, or care home workers? Or delivery drivers, police officers or supermarket staff for that measure.

If we are going to get the country back on track then we are all going to need to do “our bit”.

www.walesonline.co.uk/news/education/what-school-leaders-teaching-unions-18139305

I'm in Wales it's clearly being thought about by teahers Unions, Heads and Welsh government and they seem to be thinking about how it can be done as safely as possible.

I am not suggesting, btw, that schools should stay shut 'forever'. I would go back tomorrow (I am in a vulnerable category (asthma) but not shielded) as long as someone who has spent significant amounts of time in schools has created a single, universal, clearly thought out approach and suite of procedures to manage the risks both to those in school AND to the wider community, and has ensured that generous supplies of every piece of equipment and all materials required (e.g. soap) are guaranteed in every school from day 1 of return.

I'm not so keen in the scenario - which seems by far the most likely - that someone says 'all schools are back a week today, every school will have to work out their own approach, no, no PPE or extra hygiene supplies [or budget to buy them] because the NHS needs them.

Sun thanks interesting

In terms of schools re-opening this needs to be seen in the context of the wider lockdown situation. There is no point saying that pubs and restaurantss_ can't be opened and then putting hundreds of children and staff together in a school environment.
"I personally think schools will need to remain closed for at least the next couple of months and any re-opening will need to be very carefully managed, probably having groups of children on a part-time basis throughout the day in order to minimise the risks to everyone.
"There are no easy answers but the on-going

For example, my classroom has cold water, but not hot. Social distancing would allow 10 children in the class - I have more than 30, so that would have to be 4 separate sessions. All equipment and tables would need to be cleaned between these 4 sessions (I was personally washing tables 5x per day when we closed), and all but 1 of our cleaners are in vulnerable groups.

If schools do reopen on a part time phased opening on a rotation basis, exactly how many people will that allow to go back to work in any meaningful way?

Exactly this. AsI say, with more than 30 children in a small classroom, to achieve social distancing my class would have to attend in 4 different groups. Even if some children don't return, due to shielding / high vulnerability, then the minimum number of groups would be 3.

So maybe 3 sessions per child per week (with me teaching 9 sessions, and 1 session for an end of week deep clean). This really isn't going to enable anyone to return to work in a meaningful way.

And that is before anyone becomes ill. I presume that a case of Covid within the class - if completely isolated from all other classes throughout their time in the building - would shut that class down for quarantine for 14 days for all children attending that session, plus their teacher. the classroom would need to be shut for all for deep cleaning.

Again, I don't understand how this would enable anyone to go to work.

The ONLY way to enable everyone to go back to work would be for schools to open completely as normal - which would spell the end of social distancing and thus should be a step in the 'green' (final) level of relaxing the lockdown, not the 'red ' (initial) phase.

If schools do reopen on a part time phased opening on a rotation basis, exactly how many people will that allow to go back to work in any meaningful way?

Would they still be providing key worker childcare on top of p/t opening?

I supposed that could work here as not all schools are open they are in groups already and any child from entire group is sent to the two open schools with a council site then offering later childcare times.

The FSM are then collected from a different school in reception for so many days at set times.

However I got the impression that not the case in many areas with many areas seeming to have schools doing it all alone.

My school is doing keyworker / vulnerable / EHCP childcare 'on its own', ie for our own pupils, in our own building.

I suppose that such children could occupy 'communal' areas of the school - Hall, field, ICT room - for childcare in 'normal' school hours and then be sent to their classes for their own ' sessions', but the chance of virus transmission via this route are of course significant, as children from different 'sessions' would be mixing in childcare.