Dominic Cummings is part of Sage

[pontypridd]

The mystery scientific advisory body

@OhCrumbsWhereNow I really wouldn't be interested enough to look at the thread history, but thanks for the warning. I learned to watch my back at a very early age. Unpredictable mother and other factors.

I always like to look at things from all angles and with as much evidence as possible (including what my own senses and Spidey senses tell me), and I also like to give anyone and everyone as fair a chance as possible.

It's not the fact that SpAds attend meetings that I find curious, and anyway I know the membership of SAGE and the rest varies depending on what the latest crisis is. And many previous meetings have the minutes out there in the public domain, there's nothing to hide.

It's the fact that he's in contempt of parliament and still allowed to attend meetings and feed back to Boris that I find so curious. And given that he has changed jobs and roles and situations a LOT, there can't be that many people who would have worked with him for longer than, what, 10 years?

Anyway, must be time for a biscuit and a kitten picture, eh!

Or at least very defensive of certain Tory ministers.

@PerkingFaintly I don't work for any political party or for the government if that is what you are wondering.

My comments here are always from my personal perspective and generally unconnected to the rest of my life.

I don't think it's policy to make sure care home staff don't have adequate PPE, is it? Although I agree they often don't.

From the Evening Standard;

"a No 10 spokesman said: “It is not true that Mr Cummings or Dr Warner are ‘on’ or members of Sage. Mr Cummings and Dr Warner have attended some Sage meetings and listen to some meetings now they are all virtual."

“They do this in order to understand better the scientific debates concerning this emergency and also to understand better the limits of how science and data can help government decisions."

“Occasionally they ask questions or offer help when scientists mention problems in Whitehall. Others also listen to meetings without being ‘on’ or ‘a member of’ Sage."

“Sage provides independent scientific advice to the government. Political advisers have no role in this."

“The scientists on Sage are among the most eminent in their fields. It is factually wrong and damaging to sensible public debate to imply their advice is affected by government advisers listening to discussions."

Do you take that article as fact, Clavinova?

1forsorrow

The UK have been accused of under reporting Covid-19 deaths in care homes because the death rates are so high in care homes across Europe.

@EmpressMcSchnozzle

That's a pretty sensible way of doing things. Things are generally a lot more straightforward and simple than the media make out.

Conspiracy theorists also tend to credit governments and politicians with a lot more cunning than they possess in my experience.

So far no-one has taken Dom to court and found him guilty of anything. MPs and Ministers are free to hire who they like as their staff - obviously some people will cause eyebrows to be raised, at which point the question is whether that person's skill set and knowledge outweighs the hassle that the media will cause or not.

Boris and co obviously feel that Dom brings things to the table that they value more than the negative press.

Interestingly he is generally liked and respected by his staff - that is a relatively rare thing in Westminster.

Lots of people move jobs in that arena - the same names and faces crop up on a regular basis. People also tend to hire those that they know and trust.

Biscuits and kittens are always a bonus.

Do you take that article as fact, Clavinova?

I expect we will find out eventually - the minutes of previous SAGE meetings appear to be published after the event.

Oh are they clarinova, can you link where?

That isn't the half of it - Palantir's involvement in surveillance and questionable uses of private data on behalf, amongst others of the NSA are extremely disturbing. Thiel has latterly been a supporter of the Trump campaign along with the Koch Brothers (i360) and the Mercer family (Cambridge Analytica and their descendants such as Faculty).

Another Dominic Cummings' plot?

"The secretive US data-mining firm Palantir, founded by Silicon Valley billionaire and New Zealand citizen Peter Thiel, has had talks with the [New Zealand] Government about combating Covid-19."

www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12326923

"Palantir in Talks With Germany, France for Virus-Fighting Tool."

www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-04-01/palantir-in-talks-with-germany-france-for-virus-fighting-tool

I expect we will find out eventually - the minutes of previous SAGE meetings appear to be published after the event.

I actually meant some time after the event (I came across the swine flu minutes earlier today) although looking at the government's website here you may only get (redacted) minutes from a FOI request.

www.gov.uk/government/groups/scientific-advisory-group-for-emergencies-sage

There are several FOI requests for Covid-19 minutes pending on WhatDoTheyKnow.

www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/apr/25/top-tories-demand-dominic-cummings-sage-bar-cross-party-call

Top Tories join calls to bar Cummings from SAGE.

No amount of telling me advisers have to be at the meetings will convince me this does not stink.

@PerkingFaintly

I don't think it's policy to make sure care home staff don't have adequate PPE, is it? Although I agree they often don't

PHE website guidelines to care homes and staff was that the risk of infection to clients and staff was extremely low, no need for any additional precautions ... this stayed on their website until 31/3. So add in the sending back of clients with CV & not tested and its quite clear that it was either a deliberate policy to kill the elderly or PHE/dept of health is run by people with Trumps level of medical knowledge.
Even now, only those in care homes with symptoms are to be tested, meaning that for many days virus can be spread by residents and staff.

Clav What is happening in europe is irrelevant, we had a 2 to 4 week window to see where they messed up and its equally possible some countries are as callous as the UK.

He attended meetings (which he should). He’s not part of it

If the list of members in SAGE and those observing is published, then there is transparency and it's not a an issue.

Imagine if the members of the Supreme or High court was kept secret and Govt advisors were allowed in on their deliberations?

@Letsdrinkgin

why? its a scientific committee and in past national emergencies, they have not.

Cleggs advisor says in on meetings when there was swine flu. Where’s the uproar there? As usual it’s the left frothing when they know nothing

He is an Advisor.
How can he "advise" if he is not part of the meetings.
It's his bloody job !

Exactly! It’s his job to attend meetings. Starmer’s advisor would attend meetings if he was prime minister. They done it in the past, they’ll do it in the future.

Maybe an apolitcal civil servant could advise. Still stinks.

Oh yes, Nick Clegg's chief adviser, James Sorene, on Twitter;

"Don’t really get this story - during swine flu pandemic I went to SAGE and said some stuff at SAGE and even contributed but I was clearly not on the committee and not one of its members. Surely the same story with Cummings."

It's really a non story. Does any of the outraged on here actually work at senior levels of the Government? Civil service I mean not politicians.

Of course the PMs senior advisor listens in to significant meetings such as these. It would be the same (and was as I recall) under the Labour Government.

Not a non story to me sorry.