Interesting report on healthcare worker deaths

[MRex]

www.hsj.co.uk/exclusive-deaths-of-nhs-staff-from-covid-19-analysed/7027471.article

Hard to tell if this is good news that healthcare workers are safer than we expect, bad news that BAME people face disproportionately high death rates, or if the workers being non-UK ties in with not receiving BCG vaccine when they were young (it's pointless after age 35). Thoughts from anyone?

Interesting, but the study does have it's limitations as they admit.

I'm not sold on the BCG argument. Not sure but it certainly was the case that students entering nursing, medicine, physio etc had to have the full raft of vaccinations and immunisations, inc BCG.

Unless I miss read they seem surprised that no anaesthetists, ICU doctors of nurses are among the dead. Really ? By the time a patient gets to ICU, everyone knows or most definitely assumes they have COVID and the staff are PPE'd up to and including their eyeballs.

I'm surprised we didn't see more GPS, dentists and other community based HCP, early on.

When I studied they asked for your vaccination record, and for you to be up to date but the BCG wasn't mandatory (couldn't be - they've stopped giving it in most of the country). I'm also not sold on the BCG argument though.

That's an interesting study, especially the BAME aspect. It's a very high percentage, proportionally.

Out of curiosity, I don't know if this is a silly question but is there any way to work out if you would have been given the BCG vaccine? I am 34 so was at secondary school between 1997 and 2004 so would I have had it if they stopped doing it in 2005? Or had they already started reducing the number of people getting it before then?

I remember having some vaccines at school but cannot for the life of me remember which ones now.

BCG often leaves a scar and it/the scab is memorable!

You’d have a scar I think? Or is that my rubella scar?

Yes it’s my bcg scar - I remember the scar, it was really sore

Panic if you had the BCG you would have a visible scar on the top of one of your arms. Those of us who had it all know where our scar is.

Rubella doesn't scar.

BCG might. As might smallpox (but you'd definitely have to be over 55 to have had that on NHS)

I had BCG but have no scar.

I think scarring depends on how well your blister heals,and some are luckier than others.

I can't remember when BCG stopped being given in schools nationally, but I think it was probably late 1990s (which is when they started offering it for newborns in certain high risk areas)

Can you remember having a multi needle test on your wrist? You had this done before the actual BCG vaccination

Can you remember having a multi needle test on your wrist? You had this done before the actual BCG vaccination

I honestly can't remember anything about vaccinations at school other than very vague memories of queuing up to get them done.

I can't see a scar so tempted to think I haven't had one. Oh well.

Thanks for posting the article. It's reassuring that health workers are not more at risk. Doesn't really go with the narrative of certain portions of the media / politicians.

I have no scar. The gp did my bcg so it wasnt rushed like the job lot done at school!

My BCG scar is teeny tiny. You can only see it when I catch the sun. I was at school between 94-99 if that helps anyone!

reports I read are that is has a lot to do with the ability to make vitamin D. Darker skin has a harder time making it and this vitamin can help fend of lung attacks to a high percentage. Around 70%.

@PanicOnTheStreets85

I was at secondary school 2003-2007 and was supposed to have it but I refused as I was too scared so you would have had it.

The BCG (TB) and Smallpox scar can look similar (large flat white, with ragged edges). The Rubella scar is I think smaller but more like a raised mound

Can you remember having a multi needle test on your wrist

Yes I did. I think this was because someone in my class had TB and it's to see if you've already been exposed to it, but not 100% sure on that

I would also like to know how they can link the BCG to corona. One is a virus the other a bacteria. What is the mechanism that takes place here that links them.

LilQueenie
Because the pneumonia with Covid19 can be bacterial? Like a secondary infection on a weakened immune system?

@PanicOnTheStreets85 it depends where you lived. I think most areas of England were still doing BCG at that time. I’m the same age as you and I find most people my age had it, but I didn’t as the area I lived in (Oxfordshire) didn’t do it as standard.

They have missed out the fact that the vast majority of people dying of CV-19 are much older than the healthcare workers.

They need to look at the numbers of healthcare workers dying compared to the number of the working age population catching and dying of CV-19.

That's an interesting study, especially the BAME aspect. It's a very high percentage, proportionally

Could this be because the % is being compared with a national % demographic instead of a local %

If an urban area has a higher BAME population and the areas with the highest numbers of Covid cases or deaths are also urban. Then it would skew the data when compared to the whole country and its national % ethnic demographic.

So if London, or Birmingham, has a high number of Covid cases, compared with a more rural area (same population for the sake of the maths) then you would expect more BAME cases compared to the national ethnic demographic, simply because more BAME people live in urban areas, where there is more covid19

Hope that makes sense, maths is inst my strong point

I went to school in what was then the county of Avon around Bristol and Bath. Nobody there had BCG from 1979 onwards. My older brother and sister did in the early 1970s.

% BAME healthcare staff overall versus London and Midlands possibly does make a difference. Where does that leave us? Age looks younger, but then working people are generally younger also, and working for the NHS doesn't preclude having multiple health conditions. The question is whether this means most healthcare staff can stay safe at work, and whether it means theories about viral load aren't true. I'd felt like viral load impact made sense since the first Chinese doctor we knew about died in early Feb, but maybe it is meaningless. That's quite an.important thing to know for how important social distancing is versus random genetics and luck.

I am 42 and was at secondary school from 1989-1996 and I had the BCG aged 14 iirc. First it was a needle test shaped like a flower on the wrist and then the needle itself which did leave a scar on me.