Might get flamed for this but do you think some self employed will be screwed?

[planetcloud]

Just wondering about the cash in hand businesses that don't necessarily put everything through the books. Do you think they will be suffering now because they can't claim as much through the Government scheme?

Why do you ask

Just an observation - no real reason other than curious.

I guess so, but then they've not been paying tax so I guess they can live off the savings they've accumulated from that! I'm self employed but have had very little work the last 3 years (not for lack of trying to get it!) so I'm a bit worried I won't be entitled to very much, if anything at all. I made the huge profit of £2000 for the whole of the last tax year!

Some of them will also be the ones who have declared low amounts to avoid paying child maintenance. No sympathy for them.

I do have sympathy for those who have recently started se

I'm all for people getting anything they are entitled to by the way and I suppose if you don't declare everything you should have savings.

Yes I can think of three people that I know
A Barber, Hairdresser and a nail technician who have always kept their wages low and insisting on cash in order to claim as much tax credits or pay minimal tax and pocketing the cash

It’s bitten all three of them in the ass right now

Oh and none of them have any savings that will see them through for 2 -3 months not working

Tough luck - if you dont declare it and dont pay tax fairly, why on earth should you benefit twice?

It serves them right.

It’s people like Dd who became self employed last August and so hasn’t submitted her self assessment yet who are screwed.

Well people who fiddle the books will obviously lose out, though to be honest I have limited sympathy.

The people who I do feel for is recent start up, who might have made very little 2 or 3 years ago, but would now have a decent income. The average of the last 3 years will be much less then they are currently earning.

I know some who will be because they took a break to have children so no earnings or tax return last year.

Sorry the tax year before I mean - they have been earning again this tax year.

And last tax year - just not the one before.

Sorry, too much gin.

of course but I'm sure they appreciate they cant have it both ways so they have cash under the mattress from their undeclared funds to cover eventualities such as this:)

I'm just amazed how many people have no savings at all. I thought it was pretty standard good practice to have three to six months stashed away for some calamitous eventuality - sickness, accident, roof falling in etc. I know many people live paycheck to paycheck but even fairly decent earners seem to be reeling.

Yes they will. I know someone who takes cash in hand for at least 50% of his jobs and now cannot claim what he would normally earn.

thems the breaks

I've been laughed at by friends and colleague for being scrupulous about declaring my income and paying tax. Even for cash work. I did it because it's the right thing to do. Told I was a fool.

They're not laughing now.

thems the breaks

Agree for those fiddling their accounts.

But not for those losing out due to time off for having a baby.

There will be some in every ’grouping’ who are going to be screwed. Some of their own making and some not.
The idea that everyone will come out of this current situation unscathed is unrealistic. Whether it’s work, family, education, mental health...

True Gatehouse.

Well, if you take part in tax fraud then I doubt many people will sympathise when you find that you're not eligible for support because of it. Cash in hand and not declaring your income isn't 'minimising your income'; it's tax fraud.

More worrying and worthy of our concern are the people who will fall through the gaps because they are much more recently self-employed and weren't registered for the previous tax year. There's nothing for those people except UC, many of whom who will have spent years in paid employment as tax payers but are just victims of unfortunate timing.

I also don't understand how anyone is surprised when people don't have three or six months of savings. The vast majority of people are only a couple of pay cheques away from poverty, and most people don't have thousands of pounds sitting in the bank for emergencies because they need the money they earn to actually live month to month. Given how many massive companies are falling apart now that their income has suddenly stopped, it can hardly be surprising that normal people are struggling in the same circumstances surely?

Even a lot of legitimate self employed people will be screwed. DD started self employment in September, all above board, all being declared, won’t get anything.

I always declare earnings honestly but they take the last 3 years. 3 years ago I was in hospital for months and earnt almost nothing. I’ve built my business up since then and got back on my feet. That year will be taken into account and reduce what I get by a significant amount.

The 80% is of net profit, not gross takings. I still have huge business expenses and nothing to cover them.

I take a good proportion of cash, all declared and paid tax on. Don’t assume that every self employed person is struggling due to their own fault.

On the other end, some self employed earn over 50k pay their taxes, don't deal with cash in hand and are entitled to nothing. Yes I have savings so I'll be fine but ... it annoys me slightly because why aren't businesses expected to have 3 months worth of employee salaries saved? Some don't even a month. I use other self employed support and have two months saved to pay them
If worse case no invoices got paid.

For me it's been very interesting to see the treatment of self employed people and how earning more and paying more taxes has done me no good.

Good. Anyone who doesn’t pay tax, unless because they are such a low earner that they don’t need to, deserves to get sod all.