Might get flamed for this but do you think some self employed will be screwed?

[planetcloud]

Just wondering about the cash in hand businesses that don't necessarily put everything through the books. Do you think they will be suffering now because they can't claim as much through the Government scheme?

I'm self employed.

I won't get anything near what I would have earned over this 3 months as the calculation will be an average including two of the years before youngest started school. So not great but I'm grateful for anything that gets thrown my way.

The thing is though, I made sure I didn't spend everything I earned, always put aside my tax money and keep enough money in the tank to survive a few months of no income although I had anticipated broken legs or something not a pandemic. Feeling pretty smug if I'm honest. I drive a shit car, have shit holidays and keep my expenses low. Good job too as I seem to fall through the cracks of all the help going.

If I can do this, why can't Richard Branson and the likes. Surely if their businesses can't survive 3 months no income then they have pocketed too much or it's just not a viable business.

There will be lots of self employed screwed:

-those who trade cash in hand and don't declare
-those who have been self employed for less than say 18 months, possibly longer depending on their non s/e income in 18/19
-Those who have invested heavily in their business (reducing profit short term)
-those whose business has been growing (average taken over 3 years, ending a full year ago) but might well have made a loss 4 years ago
-those who have tipped over the £50k threshold

And yeah fuck em if they've been fiddling their self assessment. Just fuck em.

Arseholes.

And some perfectly honest SE people are also screwed. They fall through sone of the cracks.

I'd rather something was put in place that assisted a couple of people who have been fixing the system than missed some honest, and now struggling, people.

Yes all sorts of people will fall through the gaps including low earning self employed people who haven't submitted a tax return, either because it's a new enterprise or because they are dodging tax.

THERE ARE 3 DAYS LEFT TO SUBMIT YOUR 2018-19 TAX RETURN

www.gov.uk/guidance/claim-a-grant-through-the-coronavirus-covid-19-self-employment-income-support-scheme

It’s called karma!

I was discussing this yesterday with my H. Friend works in a pub 16jrs and claims benefits.. works far more cash in hand with tips. This worries me as these are the ones possibly struggling.. however I'm self employed, pay over the odd a in tax.. nowt for me.

I think HMRC have been fair. I hadn’t put in my 2018/19 self assessment so thought I was stuck. They wrote to me and reminded me of the log in details etc to do so. I’ll get very little but it’s better than nothing eh

SIL is self employed, awful to see how they’re all viewed as fraudsters.

SIL is self employed, awful to see how they’re all viewed as fraudsters.

That's the opposite of what anyone is saying.

Universal Credit has been made a bit more generous for SE.

Before this shitshow, UC was calculated on the assumption that if you had been running a business for a year you would be earning at least 35 x min wage each week - the 'minimum income floor'. This has been temporarily suspended so a UC claim will now be calculated based on what you actually earn.

I hope the minimum income floor is permanently binned. It was incredibly unfair and has greatly disincentivised people from taking the risk of starting their own business.

I'd like to see a system of restart grants for small businesses that have fallen through the cracks so they can bounce back as quickly as possible.

Shame were not doing what Denmark and Poland are doing. I think big companies avoiding tax are a much bigger problem than the nail technician mentioned upthread (not condoning the nail technician btw).

www.businessinsider.com/coronavirus-companies-tax-havens-banned-denmark-poland-bailout-2020-4?r=US&IR=T

The other really vulnerable group of SE are the low earners. Those who earn (well) below the median wage. For these people surviving on basically nothing for 3 whole months is really very difficult. UC is only for the absolute minimum.

Obviously not much sympathy for those who have fiddled the books for their own gain but my understanding is that there is no longer much of an advantage in tax terms from paying yourself in dividends. Am I wrong??

I will get nothing as profits are (just) over £50k
Would have been fairer if we had been treated the same as employed people
Bloody Tories

18/19 Tax returns should have been in by January.
You'll have a hefty fine today if you are doing it this week.

A lot of self employed trade people are screwed. All the ones I know put everything through the books. Many are only doing emergency work since the restrictions were announced. Many have small children so won’t have £££’s in the bank. Builders merchants still need to be paid, etc. Many don’t get paid until the complete the job but they can’t go back and finish the job. Oh and they don’t get any government help until the end of June.

Yes, the 50k cap is a bit arbitrary. Most trades around me would be on more than this.

I dont actually know any income fiddlers among sole traders. A few among high rolling directors but I'm sure they have their cushion....

I think it is tough for lots of people. I'm certainly very glad I am on public sector payroll now. Boring but great at times like this.

I can't find whether they are still issuing fines for late returns or not ListeningQuietly. Assuming that they are, the fine is £100 and the grant scheme is worth up to £2500 a month.

You have to have submitted a tax return for 2018-19 to be eligible for the scheme and there are 3 days left to do this.

ChipsAreLife yes I agree.

One of the (many) petitions I signed was about capping monthly payments at £2,500 regardless of net profit.

Many higher earners will have savings etc but, as you say, have other contractors to pay, fixed overheads etc.

It's also manifestly unfair that someone with average earnings of £50,500 over three years gets the same amount of help as someone with a profit of £100,000+ ie nothing.

Time of for maternity/adoption leave needs to be taken in account as well, under the Equality Act.

If people have dodged paying tax for years by taking cash in hand and not putting it through the books they don't get to gain through the furlough scheme.
I can't imagine anyone who has done the above having the balls to moan about it?

I'm sure they will continue their ways when lockdown is lifted and feel like they are justified because they didn't get any furlough money

UC can still be claimed if they can live off that?