Boris Johnson and the precautionary ‘4 litres of oxygen’

[Lycidas]

In the NHS, the current threshold for being admitted to ICU is needing 15 litres of oxygen. Yet Boris Johnson was admitted and only given 4. Early signs from Germany are that giving oxygen and early admissions might help lower the death rate. Instead, we seem to be telling people to wait until they’re blue in the mouth, when they’ll need to risk the ventilator lottery.

Can we start discussing the Boris exception to treatment and if it’s feasible to roll out this ‘precautionary’ approach to the rest of the population?

I think the media need to start questioning the 111 system and delay in admission to hospitals when we have capacity and ask why people are being left to die at home. Instead of going on about the exit strategy.

We need to learn about the virus and change our response to it as we know more. Not just keep on with the same strategy. Especially when other countries are dealing with it more successfully.

If they are waiting until people are turning blue and can only speak two words until they admit them then that is far too late. Questions need to be asked. Early treatment can help. We know this.

But that's my point @jasjas1973. We don't know exactly what treatment he had, because it is not our business. We only know what the press have told us. And people who take what the press said, and run with it as fact, are not dealing with a true premise.
You do not know whether he had NHS treatment which he didn't require, as you put it? Do you? You are basing your assumptions on press, not medical records.
The only people who need to know are his medical team, they knew, they intervened, he got the necessary treatment. That is all we know. Everything else is speculation based on unreliable press.

Sophie that’s fine and his treatment is a red herring really other than promoting a question. The big issue is whether we are too late with 111.

KatySun that made me tense reading that you put it well. Did you stay home?

Promoting a question...

Prompting! Why does my phone not like that word

@SophieB100

What we do know is he got treatment in an NHS hospital that few others get.
Tonight Ch4 News highlighted a nurse who died at home, a week after becoming ill.... did she not deserve prompt (and possible) life saving treatment?
Or maybe a weekly clap is all she deserved?

Marsha yes I have stayed at home; I called 111 after I had been ill for eight days, chest pains for five. It was clear that they were ruling out heart conditions including a heart attack over the phone and regarding breathing they wanted to know if my lips were blue and various questions about how I was breathing. I spoke to my own GP a week later when symptoms had not cleared up and she prescribed antibiotics for a potential secondary infection. I spoke to another GP a week after that and she said the pain was due to my lungs still being inflamed and they would heal. That was last week.

So four weeks, I have spoken to three doctors by telephone, I still wake up short of breath and my chest is still sore. I do not think I need to go to hospital, although seeing an actual person at some point would be nice, but equally I can see how people would put off calling 111 after the first time because their lips were not yet blue and they did not want to burden the health care system etc.

Yes, it's not about what happened when Boris got to hospital FFS, it's the fact that ordinary people can't get near one.
The 111 system should have been scrapped years ago it's a disaster. I also don't understand why the whole world isn't following Germany's lead, it's bonkers.

Well the objective of staying home was to protect the NHS, so if people aren't admitted until very late and that helps the NHS not be overwhelmed, then that's a successful result vs the objective, which is all good, right?

Bloody government.

"if you were to buy something like - clear 02 ( small 15 litre oxygen can ) would be worth getting in case you get Covid 19 and get the bad breathing problems?"

In short, no. When people say 'he was on x litres of oxygen' that means x litres of oxygen per minute. So 4 litres of oxygen (a relatively low flow) means that your 15 litres capacity oxygen cylinder would last you under 5 minutes.

It doesn't really matter how much oxygen BJ was on. It would be his overall condition that determined his care.

Personally I would bypass 111 and go straight to A&E if one of my family was struggling to breathe again. As I have mentioned on another thread I drove my youngest daughter to a&e in early March because she couldn't breathe due to a pneumonia tybreinfection-looking back it was classic covid symptoms. I then rang them back after a week of antibiotics as she was still struggling and her temp was constantly over 40°. They eventually called me back after 2 and a half days and at 4 in the morning. Utterly useless.

How can we get journalists to highlight this issue - of late or no admittance to hospital

It seems that Downing Street only pay attention to issues when a media highlighted scandal is brewing (like the situation in care homes) .

If hospitals are not full then people need to be admitted earlier. Period.

If you honestly thought they were just going to let the prime minister die, you are extremely naive.

Welcome to the real world.

@YesThatIsMyRealName you need to read the OP again.

It does make me angry that lives could be saved by getting the same treatment as Boris got, but they aren’t.
Everyone should be getting that treatment.

If hospitals are not full then people need to be admitted earlier. Period. Absolutely. This isn't a third world country

I think people who have been denied treatment or have relatives who have been should write to their MPs.

nancy, yes same here. I have told my sons if I get this and am very will then they should drive me within 10 minutes to A&E,never mind waiting 3 hours for 111 to speak to me/fob me off, never mind 9 ours of waiting for an ambulance; although knowing my luck it would have been Northwick Park hospital when it was 100% full and then on to Watford also near us which had an oxygen problem the other day - may be we would have to do a full tour of every London hospital A&E to find one actually available. Perhaps those of us near London should all head for St Thomas's as it seems to be so good.

Besides, a grateful Prime Minister who now has a better understanding of the value of ensuring oxygen supplies and PPE

Because that worked out so well with Cameron and how grateful he was to the NHS.