Still not getting any help whatsoever from the government. I'm pissed off.

[AvocadosBeforeMortgages]

I run a highly seasonal business that's dependent on public events, weddings and the like. Everything I'd planned to do this summer with the business has been cancelled; I'm doing some home deliveries but whether or not this will sustain me remains to be seen - the summer season is so crucial to the business, and I'm now having to factor in more petrol and more time as doing deliveries is time consuming.

I've fallen through every crack of government support on offer.

• Self employed income support grant (furlough equivalent) - can't get it because I only went self employed last year, despite having paid PAYE every year before that

• Universal Credit - like many others, I can't get it because of having some savings and / or having a partner still earning. Even if I could get it, it wouldn't cover even the basic outgoings on my very modest lifestyle FFS (Shared flat. In Wales). Note that no other form of coronavirus support is restricted on the basis of savings / partner income.

• £10k grant - can't get it because my business doesn't have premises - I've been running the business from home while in the start up phase; I had been hoping to take on business premises in future.

• Business Loan Interruption Scheme - can't start taking out loans because I'd have no way of paying them back (and I strongly suspect I'd be turned down for it anyway, as the majority of applications have been rejected).

• Welsh Government Economic Resilience Fund - can't get it as I'm not employing anyone else and I'm not VAT registered.

I'm not really sure what the government expect people like me to live on - thin air? Presumably I'm also going to be taxed more to cover the cost of the coronavirus support that I've been denied. It feels like everyone around me is either getting some nice time off work, fully or 80% paid, is working and being paid as normal, or is getting a nice cheque from the government. I am SO done with this lockdown shit already; I just want to go to the pub and drown my sorrows with my friends. I'm possibly being unreasonable but I just feel so forgotten and abandoned by the government.

It is poo, but once your savings are below £16k you can get help. No one was really bothered before and most were gleeful that there were saving limits so people could not sit on money whilst claiming benefits. Many people have had to do so after losing jobs through no fault of their own over the years, I don't remember the outrage then?

You're in a very fortunate position to have savings - use them. Once they're under 16k you can then apply for UC. It sucks but lots of people are in a similar position - we are as well. I'm just grateful I have money to fall back on.

Sorry but I entirely disagree with the view that people who aren't helped shouldn't pay extra.

I think everyone will end up paying more, but what I was meaning was the idea that the self employed pay A LOT extra on the grounds that they received a lot of support. That's fine for the self employed who did receive the support, but grossly unfair for the ones who fell through the cracks. There is a suggestion that self employed will be hit hard afterward by increases in self employed NIC for example.

I wasn't referring to the general tax increases across the board that will hit everyone.

@LemonsNVod - there's a practical point about houses and cases being illiquid assets. You pretty much can't sell a house at all right now. Also, anyone who bought a house a few months ago will have it lose a lot of value due to the global pandemic, I doubt anybody's skipping along entirely unaffected.

@Kazzyhoward - that's fair, I wasn't aware there was a confirmed plan to increase taxes for self-employed people.

Exactly Kazzy. I cringed the day Sunak said - loads of mnoey for the self employed but only those earning under £50k but only fair he said they shoudl pay higher national insurance next year and then he added (pretty much very unfairly) that the average of those over £50k are on £250k which of course is very misleading if you have someone £2m and some on £51K. It is a massive cliff edge which does not apply to the PAYE employees even on £10m a year pay or those who set up their own limited company with PAYE pay and he did not say employees face higher taxes.

So it seems to be the very first people being asked to pay the most tax next year to pay for this are the very people who got nothing from Sunak's measures - self employed over £50k before tax. This pretty much clinches it for me - that we are not in this together and the more you pay in the very very less the state ever gives you, not even possible for many even to call an ambulance at present never mind see a GP so it is not as if we even have the NHS.

I am not sitting pretty anywhere. I rent.

No it is not ‘fair’ if you have to use your savings but you should still have to use them.

If they did remove the £16k saving UC cap, this place will explode with threads squealing about lazy families who’ve never worked for 3 generations, going on 4 holidays a year including Disney, designer clothes and driving BMWs with a bonus whine about how they’re allowed to have savings too.

Loving the outrage about UC now by people who didn’t give a crap about truly vulnerable people before e.g. carers and people with disabilities.

Loving the outrage about UC now by people who didn’t give a crap about truly vulnerable people before e.g. carers and people with disabilities.

This with bells on. It was a fine system when it didn’t affect people who thought they were untouchable. Now they get a taste of it, they are up in arms and want rules changing.

People are so selfish.

“lazy families who’ve never worked for 3 generations, going on 4 holidays a year including Disney, designer clothes and driving BMWs”

And they currently buy the expensive things to keep below the £6k threshold. I know several who do this and have for ten years plus. They get their rent paid in a new energy efficient flat, minimal running costs, so they have money left over for the nice things. They could work, but choose not to do so, because once all their benefits are added up they’re already getting the equivalent of a £30k a year salary. Yet those who didn’t play the game and live frugally to save get nothing. The benefits system needs an overhaul.

Loving the outrage about UC now by people who didn’t give a crap about truly vulnerable people before e.g. carers and people with disabilities.

How do you know these people weren't outraged before?

I've never had to claim any kind of benefit but I think the system is shocking.

I really sympathise. I fall through the net for various different (though comparable) reasons. The 'package' is a poorly designed blunt instrument that reflects the government's desperation not to get sucked into UBI, which would have been fairer and more efficient but was deeply undesirable politically. I don't know what we can do except brainstorm ways of diversifying our businesses or starting whole different ones, either temporarily or permanently.

Outstanding. The usual 'people on benefits should....' suddenly disappeared and money for everyone should now be the norm. Suddenly, 'people on benefits' looks like us and somehow it's not enough. If the OP had been a single parent, had some kind of disability (even short term) or illness, she would have been told to use the money she has and sell everything she owned on top. You have savings, use them. There are few people who will end up better off coming out of this than went in and those better off won't be the ones sitting at home on furlough or other scheme. They'll be out working and taking the risks that come with it.

I have lost a couple of days work and some of my casual, evening work. I've managed to replace it almost entirely by internet trawling and looking more broadly at my skills, qualifications and experience. Where there's a will....

I wonder if the people berating the OP and saying she should use her savings have stopped to think whether they should also use their equity instead of taking furlough payments?

That's simply comparing apples with oranges and expecting them to be the same. They're not. But yes, if I could access my house equity, I would happily use it in a situation such as this. Put a charge on it to stop me selling without making the payment. Not rocket science, is it?

Spot on, Lost!

OP - when you have ill and disabled people dying because they were denied benefits do you really think the public purse should ring fence your £16k in savings?

Totally agree Serial

Its so very selfish to complain when you have 16k in the bank whilst others literally have nothing. Now the shoe is on the other foot all of a sudden the benefits system causes outrage. Where was the outrage previously?

Also f you have a house its an equity loan for mortgage interest support. Its not a benefit.

It is very unfair and I really feel for you op.
I think this situation has highlighted how terrible UC is and it's not fit for purpose.
I hope we can have a generation of non-Tory government to try and repair this country.

But yes, if I could access my house equity, I would happily use it in a situation such as this.

I really doubt that.

Very bad luck with timing but yes not thin air, savings.

Once under £16k can you apply?

I know it's rubbish but sorry I think you should use your savings. You have 16k in the bank, most people don't have that. Why should you get government money so you can keep your savings? It's a shit situation, I get that, but I would be relieved to have a buffer.

My DH is a director of his own company. So far he's ok, as many expenses as possible have been cut. He doesn't know how long it will last. He can claim from the government but it won't be enough to cover our costs. We are very lucky to have £8k. This was going to be for a holiday of a lifetime, over two years saving but if we need to use it we will. It's rubbish, no holiday, but right now we need it to keep us afloat.

I just don’t believe these stories about people buying random crap so they can keep getting benefits - you don’t get enough.

Being able to save is a privilege.

"Split up" with DP and claim UC?

Mamanyoga - What a stupid thing to say. Why would anyone move out, pay rent on a another place etc because of the loss of potentially a few months earnings ?

I am an equal opportunities small stater.... and would like much less handed out to anyone.

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And they currently buy the expensive things to keep below the £6k threshold. I know several who do this and have for ten years plus. They get their rent paid in a new energy efficient flat, minimal running costs, so they have money left over for the nice things. They could work, but choose not to do so, because once all their benefits are added up they’re already getting the equivalent of a £30k a year salary. Yet those who didn’t play the game and live frugally to save get nothing. The benefits system needs an overhaul.

@JustAnotherPoster00

It happens. Though perhaps my definition of “expensive” and “nice” is different to yours. They don’t have a BMW parked out front. They don’t buy designer clothes. They don’t stay in 5* hotels when on holiday. But they do have money for holidays abroad, alcohol, re-decorating (new wallpaper, carpet, curtains) every 2-3 years, new gadgets every few years (TV, phones, computer etc). Basically what you’d expect for someone on a £30k salary outside of London/the south east, except they’re getting it via income-related benefits.