Still not getting any help whatsoever from the government. I'm pissed off.

[AvocadosBeforeMortgages]

I run a highly seasonal business that's dependent on public events, weddings and the like. Everything I'd planned to do this summer with the business has been cancelled; I'm doing some home deliveries but whether or not this will sustain me remains to be seen - the summer season is so crucial to the business, and I'm now having to factor in more petrol and more time as doing deliveries is time consuming.

I've fallen through every crack of government support on offer.

• Self employed income support grant (furlough equivalent) - can't get it because I only went self employed last year, despite having paid PAYE every year before that

• Universal Credit - like many others, I can't get it because of having some savings and / or having a partner still earning. Even if I could get it, it wouldn't cover even the basic outgoings on my very modest lifestyle FFS (Shared flat. In Wales). Note that no other form of coronavirus support is restricted on the basis of savings / partner income.

• £10k grant - can't get it because my business doesn't have premises - I've been running the business from home while in the start up phase; I had been hoping to take on business premises in future.

• Business Loan Interruption Scheme - can't start taking out loans because I'd have no way of paying them back (and I strongly suspect I'd be turned down for it anyway, as the majority of applications have been rejected).

• Welsh Government Economic Resilience Fund - can't get it as I'm not employing anyone else and I'm not VAT registered.

I'm not really sure what the government expect people like me to live on - thin air? Presumably I'm also going to be taxed more to cover the cost of the coronavirus support that I've been denied. It feels like everyone around me is either getting some nice time off work, fully or 80% paid, is working and being paid as normal, or is getting a nice cheque from the government. I am SO done with this lockdown shit already; I just want to go to the pub and drown my sorrows with my friends. I'm possibly being unreasonable but I just feel so forgotten and abandoned by the government.

I feel for you in that it must be immensely crap to lose your work and have slipped through the net in terms of being able to claim as a self employed person. However, I have to say, you have £16k in savings. It’s never been an issue of outrage before but now ‘ordinary people’ are losing jobs/work, they seem to think it’s unfair that benefits claimants can’t have an unlimited sum in savings. If £16k is fair, how much can a person have, £26k, £50k....? Once you fall below the threshold, you will be eligible for UC. As a currently working and employed tax payer, I fully support that but why should you be allowed to keep your savings and claim benefits?

I think you don't need to live on thin air.

I have a bit over £16k in savings (not massively over) - but those have been hard won over many years, and were meant to be a house deposit rather than a rainy day fund

It's a rainy day fund now. This has been done to death on other threads.

I get that the set up feels unfair.

However, if you have never filed tax returns how is anyone able to say what 80% of your earnings are?

Also, surely in your first year of business you arent actually earning that much.

I was self employed for several years. And you need to have savings to get your business off the ground and to get you through the lean times. Thats right now.

Employed and self employed both have pros and cons.

Anyone employed who has 16k of savings and has lost their job wont get UC either.

Slightly confused as to why you mention a partner working, if there isnt one.

Yes its shit. But not really sure what they could do differently, other than take your word for it that you are earning x amount wage.

PAYE can have unlimited savings and still get 80% of they pay.

Where as self employed can’t have more than 50k income.

Unfair.

@Greenbutterlfy566

PAYE furloughed workers get their salary of 80% but only up to a maximum of £2500 pcm (gross, I believe).

£16k of savings is a lot, especially if you live in a shared house and are still able to trade, just differently. I think you need to gain a little bit of perspective here OP. I know you're feeling hard done by, pretty much everyone is and you're fully entitled to feel that way and aren't unreasonable for it but £16k and still able to work? It's far from being on your knees and having no money for food is it?

I'm not really sure what the government expect people like me to live on - thin air?

Not to sound harsh but presumably the 16k you have in savings? I know this sucks and it’s been brutal for so many people but you can use your savings to live can’t you?
I know multiple people who have lost their businesses so you aren’t alone. But you don’t have to survive on thin air. You have to use savings which yes is annoying but it’s not quite accurate to imply you won’t survive.

Schuler, yes but they get something so a person with £1m in savings and on £200k a year PAYE gets £2000 before tax on furlough and the single mother sold trader on £51k with zero savings gets zero self employed help. It is a massive anomaly.

The only real solution is going to be to end lock down ASAP come what may and secondly perhaps ensure those people who got nothing this year pay much less tax next year and those who did get money pay higher taxes next year.

I work in childcare and after being told 4 weeks ago we were being furloughed on 80% wage, the government have now done a U-turn and said we don’t qualify. So fuck knows what I’m going to do. I feel for you and hope you get something sorted

Thefaceofboe - I thought it was only in so far as the early years grant was being paid - so wages have to be prorated from that. I believe that Is also the case for nhs dental practices too - they essentially want to stop two potential pots covering the same cost?

I do think that since we’re def not all in it together when it comes to safety nets, those who have benefitted from furloughing and bailouts should have a levy on their taxes. It’s going to stick in the throat of those who weren’t helped if they have to pay higher taxes for such unequal treatment.

Whilst I understand the rationale about using savings to live on, a lot of the self employed are using their savings to keep their business going.

And if they are meant to have savings in case of a downturn, an employee runs the same risk that they may be made redundant.

And I don’t buy the whole ‘protecting businesses’ argument - if they’d made employees redundant due to the very obvious downturn, surely they could rehire them again when things pick up? That would apply whether they were a high flier or not - it’s hardly as if there would be lots of recruitment at this time, so those people would be there ready to be re- employed and presumably wanting a wage. Why couldn’t they be expected to live off their savings in the way self employed are?

@Romeojuliet the funding we currently get from the government won’t even come close to covering our wages

But presumably the private fees do otherwise the setting would be non existent? I thought it was done as a percentage - so if you normally get 50% of revenue from the grant you pay employees 50% from that grant and then claim furlough for remainder? I thought it was meant so you couldn’t claim all the grant plus 80% furlough wages. Obv there are other costs to the business but all businesses are being hit with those at the moment - eg rent for buildings they cannot use. And time will tell how long any business can carry on racking up such costs

May be wrong though! Thought that was how it worked with nhs dentists

Be glad you have savings and use them. Christ.

@RomeoJuliet yes but my setting is closed therefore no private fees coming in. I don’t really know the ins and outs of it, that’s just what was stated on the email we received

@Romeojuliet I’ll just sit tight and see, I should really read up on it myself to make sure what were being told is correct.

I don't think the system is fair at all, some people are getting zero and others £2,500 a month, a universal basic income would have been much fairer.

I became self-employed in Oct 18 and qualify for nothing as was employed in that year before that date so don't meet 50% rule. Also don't qualify for UC or anything. Thankfully my husband is employed, he's still working but double his hours for same pay whilst lots in his firm are furloughed on 100% pay and the firm is now making a big loss. Fortunately we can live on his income but it's very unfair how a self employed person on £51k gets nothing and an employed furloughed one gets £2,500 a month. Anyone self-employed 18 months or less often gets nothing or UC at best if employed before.

You might be able for new style JSA based on old PAYE earnings though not sure you can carry on your business as well and it's not much.

I’d feel the same if I was you OP. You’re allowed to feel pissed off that you have to use your savings you’ve worked hard to save, while others are getting money for free.

You say that you are not massively over the 16k and l know it's not a great way round it, or even if it's allowed but could you spend the money in excess of the 16k on material or goods for the business. That way you would be eligible for UC and the business ready to go again when it all settles down.

Your not living on thin air though are you? You are living off your savings like many people are at the moment, either waiting for furlough payments, UC, or waiting for the self employment support grant.
My DH is self employed so I completely understand the frustration of not being able to work. Our savings were for new windows but here we are using them to buy food and pay utilities. Yes its shit, yes its not ideal, yes my new windows are on the back burner but hell we are surviving in these uncertain times. Be thankful you have some savings to fall back on because many out there dont at the minute. And if your savings are just over the 16k limit for UC you will soon be under it and eligible to claim so it will all come good for you in the end

I do feel for you. No savings here but am in the first year of being self employed (well we are in April now so technically second) so I wasn’t eligible. My only saving grace is I’m going on maternity leave meaning I get something in terms of maternity allowance. It doesn’t make up for the fact that I had work scheduled for 10 KIT Days which would more or less double my income each month while on leave, but has now pretty much all been put on hold/pushed back/cancelled due for economic uncertainty. Frustrating when I had worked towards this throughout my maternity leave however I am luckier then many.

It might not be fair, but the fact is you have £16k in savings.

Some people fall through the cracks and don’t have savings. Some people are starving. You are not. Get some perspective!

PS don’t do what Moosey said. Look up deprivation of assets - it’s not allowed.

It's hard but I wanted to know how you made deliveries when we only allowed to go out for 1 hour exercise ,food or key worker.

You have £16000 in savings and a partner who earns and all you can afford is a shared flat in Wales?
Something doesn’t add up there