Surely this isn't true? Any London vets around?

[vivariumvivariumsvivaria]

A good, and previously sensible, friend of mine is a OT specialising in stroke rehab at a big London hospital.

She is now working 12 hour shifts in ITU under supervision of a specialist nurse. She's got PPE and the system seems to be working well.

However, staff are getting sick - and she told me there has been an appeal to vets and vet nurses to come and work in NHS.

Surely not?

I can't find any reports on it, and my friend is not prone to drama or delusions. I guess it makes sense in desperate times, but, the thought that times are that desperate makes me really quite scared.

Anyone heard of this?

Oh god this is worrying
I mean it's not worrying in that I don't trust them

It's worrying in that

1. System so stretched we want people who are not qualified in human health to work as a nurse?
2. People who chose a career where they wouldn't have to put themselves at risk to a pandemic are being forced to be exposed to a killer virus?
3. People in hospital are going to be treated presumably without their knowledge by someone who is not a qualified human health specialist

cultkid: it's not worrying because it's just a proposed insurance policy. Like the Nightingale hospitals. Great that they're there but might not be needed or ever full.

Like PP have said, there are lots of actual nurses twiddling their thumbs on empty wards or working from home who would be used first. Plus ex-nurses and Drs willing to gen up on recent training but still waiting for the call. Plus 3rd/2nd year student nurses or medic trainees that will be used first.

I personally think we should be using all resources and have more people working because to be frank, the system is very stretched

Doctors and nurses and hca in tears, wards full beyond normal capacity
Why not spread people out, have shorter shifts (like 5 hours) and have more staff so that people aren't worked into the ground

More routine ops and planned procedures should be going ahead too. I've seen some disturbing stats about private hospitals.

Sorry for the layout and lax way of writing I'm really sick and havent much energy but wanted to comment

G x

I was previously an RN with 30 years of Nursing experience and only came off the register a few months ago. I signed up to the emergency register weeks ago yet have not even been contacted ? This seems ridiculous when dental nurses and OT's are being redeployed. I just don't understand why no -one has even contacted me about returning. Maybe there are just shortages of staff in some areas. I am in the East midlands.

That's the thing cultkid. The NHS isn't stretched in so many, many areas and there are thousands of staff that can be used before vets would be.

SM and THE media publicise nurses crying, being overworked etc which is not representative of the NHS as a whole.

Same as you see pictures of barbecues in parks which are not at all indicative of how 'lockdown' is working.

Many, many areas are working just fine and until they're not, we don't need to worry about vets or dentists working in ICU.

As long as they are doing tasks that are appropriate I can't see the issue personally. I can't see that putting an IV line into a dog is that different, same with suturing, setting bones etc. Huge similarities particularly amongst mammals.

Maybe, but you do know how they take their patients' temperatures, don't you?

Vets are highly qualified, I wouldn't be concerned to have one looking after me.

Great news, he's survived Covid 19. We also neutered him free of charge, while he was under; so please make sure he wears this cone for the next couple of weeks.

If I was ill enough to need hospital care this really wouldn't bother me. We are just animals, especially a vet who has experience with larger animals. A vet and a vet nurse probably have more experience watching obs on an animal under sedation than many doctors and nurses do in their everyday jobs. My only concern though would be whether the animals have got the memo not to be ill because mine usually manage it at the least appropriate time.

Humans are primates

I always thought vets trained as doctors before going on to specialise as vets? Even so, it's definitely worrying. PP saying there's no need currently makes me worry more. Is the government planning a premature end to lockdown, which would lead to hugely increased numbers of cases (and countless needless deaths)? It's a concern for the animals and farming too if we end up short of vets.

Well, at the moment, all over the UK, there are physios and OTs working in ITU when respiratory care is not their specialism.

My issue about the vet medicine isn't how close animal medicine is to human - it's that things re so stretched that this is even being considered.

Of course there are parallels between human and animal care - doesn't mean it's optimal.

My preference, if I was ventilated right now, would definitely be 1:1 care with a nurse specialist with a wider team of people who are used to working in ITU.

It's very scary that this is not possible for some people right now.

Pretty sure they could be quickly retrained on taking temperatures GC

You can guarantee that Boris Johnson's ITU nurses were all specialist ITU nurses and not redeployed dentists or vet nurses!

My cats receive better care from the vet than I do from the GP.

I always understood that a vet was trained to a standard where they could treat/operate on a human, but a surgeon (or Dr, Consultant etc) wouldn't be able to do the same for an animal.

Something to do with the organs and where they're located I think.

Anyone know if this is true?

I agree that if extra resource is needed in the NHS, and vets and their nurses have capacity to support then it makes sense to do so.

I think I'd trust a vet look after me

Two caveats though

1. They remember I do not want a thermometer wherever normally shove them

1. They seek an second opinion preferably from a doctor specialising in human medicine before they put me down

I don't know if this is a myth but I've heard that it's legal for a vet to operate on a human, but not for a doctor to operate on an animal.

I'd trust a vet - think how tiny some animals are compared to humans - vets must have to be very precise.

@GCAcademic

I’d rather be intubated by a vet than a psychiatrist!

Vets and vet nurses can take bloods, do vitals and place IVs etc.

@Pelleas perhaps not a myth, see my post just before yours!

Maybe there's truth in it after all.

Vetinary medicine and human medicine are quite closely linked, as Noel Fitzpatrick has demonstrated!

My nose is often cold and wet this time of year, so I should be in good hands.

ChangeOfName It would be quite surreal to wake up in a hospital bed to see my local vet leaning over me.

Imagine being discharged - ' ... and here's your flea and worming treatment for the next six months.'

Hey a vet can intubate anything from a horse to a hamster. I’d trust them to intubation a human mammal probably more than a psychiatrist 😱

Thinking about it further, I'd quite like to have a vet, ideally I'll replace my GP permanently with the vet who used to look after my cat. She was much more caring and knowledgeable, plus she could inject a cat without him noticing so she's welcome to do my jabs.