Socially distanced schooling in Denmark

[Orangeblossom78]

Return to school, in Denmark. Any thoughts, could we do this? edition.cnn.com/2020/04/17/europe/denmark-coronavirus-first-school-intl/index.html

We’ve been open continuously since February half term - not closed, just for priority families and then teaching online for the rest of the children. I guess a phase return would maybe just build on that?

One of our governors measured our classrooms and worked out that we could have around 6 children in each room, allowing for 2m gaps (old Victorian building) plus about 15 in the hall. So that would be around 57 children in one go.

I wonder how social distancing could work with our 1:1 children? We have five with significant needs that require close physical contact for toileting, administration of medication, restraint for violent outbursts etc. They have EHCPs so are vulnerable and thus entitled to a place (luckily none have taken them up yet, but the parents are pushing weekly) - how do we socially distance from them?

I think the idea behind opening kindergarten and primary is that more parents can get back to work. Exams have been cancelled but I'm not sure how they're being replaced. Secondary are continuing with distance learning until May 10th.

Our primary is getting the key worker children outdoors a lot - before lockdown they did PPA days with play workers to allow the staff to plan. I wonder about this- could they use them more - particularly as before lockdown some teachers were off isolating and they had to merge classes.

In our secondary most classes are meant t be around 20, not 30 but maybe it depends on intake

Bless you for the fact that you keep repeating that our schools are already open as opposed to the countries like Denmark that were^ fully closed to all Itisasecret* but that isn’t something that some seem to want to hear on MN

I am a secondary school teacher. Many of my classes have 33/34 students. I am pretty sure we’ll all be tipped back to school in a few weeks to appease the ‘we’re all going to get it anyway’ brigade. There will be no PPE or staggered starts, or reduced classes or social distancing. We will be expected to just suck it up. I don’t want to go back. I love my job and I love my students, but I signed up to teach and enthuse teenagers, not to be infected with an illness that I’m pretty well convinced will land me in hospital or finish me off.

That's awful Armi, I do hope they might do something to help. My situation is I have two DC one year 6 and the other year 10, so obviously worried about GCSEs and also have an immunocompromised DH so that is a concern also. We're also thinking of my youngest's Year 6 teacher whose husband is at risk too.

Hence the concern with special measure which might be possibly taken and other countries approaches.

When making comparisons with Denmark, it's important to remember the number of cases there is tiny compared to the UK. According to Worldometer, at the time of writing this, Denmark has had only 7242 cases and only 346 deaths.

We have a thousand students wedged into our school it's not going to work for us

Practical subject here. Lots of moving around at start and end of lesson. Lots of one to one help...
It's a tight squeeze as it is.

We have a thousand students wedged into our school it's not going to work for us

This too!
1200 in a school built for 800

Are there any ways at all which might help, do you think, in case they do as Arni, upthread says

"I am pretty sure we’ll all be tipped back to school in a few weeks to appease the ‘we’re all going to get it anyway’ brigade. There will be no PPE or staggered starts, or reduced classes or social distancing. We will be expected to just suck it up"

For example, I am wondering about as the NHS has taken new students out of training early, new teachers or even the play workers mentioned to help / support / teavh (primary) under supervision or support from more senior staff, use of outdoor spaces, even things like portakabins or other classrooms to make extra space.

The government seems to have changed things a lot for the NHS staff with new hospitals, recruiting staff etc so just wondering about what could possibly help.

DK are also having to be pretty creative to get enough space for social distancing. Some kids are going to school in amusement parks...

www.dknyt.dk/artikel/108395/koebenhavnske-boern-skal-gaa-i-skole-i-tivoli-og-parken

I think thorough specialist cleaning on a regular basis, hand gel on entry and before food and soap in the toilets would help.

Then very reduced numbers and 10 per class as far apart as possible. So maybe in secondary just have year 10 and year 12 in. In primary maybe reception or year 1 and their siblings. Or year 6 and siblings. I think learning to read is the most vital skill in primary but maybe easier to get year 6s to social distance.

Temperature checks on entry, any child showing symptoms or fake coughing over others is sent home. I would watch very closely what happens in other countries first. At primary parents would be an issue you would need a system where they didn't congregate unless the aim is to spread the virus but more slowly. I do think once schools are open a lot of people will stop social distancing. It also depends if aim of policy is to provide childcare or education. Is the aim to reduce cases to as low as possible or is it to spread is slowly so we build up herd immunity at a level NHS can cope with - I'm not sure what the aim of policy is now. I hope it's voluntary as would prefer mine off and their teachers not at risk.

To help protect teachers especially those older or vulnerable, what about BEd and PGCE students who do placements in schools anyway, teaching under supervision or support after school?

And maybe some kind of remote teaching if children in part time? The gov was going on about any kind of innovative or 'bonkers' ways forward...such students or play workers could also do PE and / or after school clubs, children and younger students both being in the low risk groups.

Practical subject here. Lots of moving around at start and end of lesson. Lots of one to one help...
It's a tight squeeze as it is

Yes i know primary classes have floor time and table time, I wonder if maybe classes might need to change a bit, as in Ireland where it is more book based, perhaps? I never really understood why in primary there was all the need for than moving around in e.g. the literacy hour. as an ex primary teacher.

Outdoor classrooms can be an asset, our school has a wooden outdoor stage they use quite a bit. City farm does clubs and things for disadvantaged children. Primary uses private school facilities e.g for sport as well.

Young children especially will not be able to distance. They don't sit at desks for a start!

I think uk those that want to go back but only up to 1/3 or 50%.
I suspect out of each 30 there will be
Either SEN so cannot socially distance
Shielding child
Shielding parent
Vulnerable parents

After all thats 90 people plus 2 teacher/ta.
I know of a child with cancer
A child with a parent with a transplant
A child with kidney issues
A parent with mild asthma
More than 1 child with asthma.
Im sure another removed child early but dont know who had the health issue.
And at least 1 parent 50+ but im sure they would go back

I think many parents here are at least 40. With ks2 kids.
These arent necessarily 1 class but it is 1 school of 450 and i dont know everyone...

And dd's tacher has to be around 50...

Oh and then you add anyone pregnant or with a baby at home...

Which in early primary must be at least 30-50 mums.

To get down to 10 people per classroom (Danish levels), my class would have to come in in 4 shifts, as it's over 30 children, plus me and sometimes another adult

As the whole push for return to school seems to be so that parents can go back to work, I don't think a 1 in 4 session rotation is going to be particularly helpful.

So i think the whole idea will be abandoned and we'll all be told to 'play our part' and 'save the country', and go back to fully open straight away.

Yes little ones would be trickier.

Wonder what Germany and France will do.

What about Italy and Spain?

I think the distinction between vulnerable and shielding will become more divided. So if you have a vulnerable parent that doesn't mean the child can't come to school. Likewise I think staff who fall into the vulnerable category will be told they should come into school.
Otherwise there'll be more off than in. Which will mean running a dual system of remote learning alongside real time. Though if only half the pupils came that would help with social distancing and the vulnerable / shielding staff could provide the remote learning. Who knows? I just hope whatever the decision is, we are given sufficient time to work things out and not just a couple of days notice like last time (tho to be fair we knew it was coming).

But in reality if a kid goes to school they will catch it.
I dont think the distinction between shielding vs vulnerable are necessarily going to get it right.
Asthma has a 6% chance of dying
Diabetic high too yet i think they are only vulnerable.
I suspect they realised it would be too many people (as most 50+ have something wrong).
Theres probably 1m asthmatics.
I think school is a separate issue as kids cant distance they cant keep masks on. They dont just come in an sit somewhere they have play time.
And i dont see why a vulnerable teacher should either. Maybe employers should offer 1m death in service. (Nhs then already down 50+m.

Bless you for the fact that you keep repeating that our schools are already open as opposed to the countries like Denmark that were fully closed to all Itisasecret* but that isn’t something that some seem to want to hear on MN^

Denmark's kindergartens and schools were open for children up to the age of 9 but only for those of key workers who had no other option of child care. The list of key workers I believe was much smaller than in the UK which resulted in some schools (in my area anyway) being able to close fully. In some cases children were pooled into one place (not necessarily their own school/kindergarten) if they required care.
Children do not need to return to school if they or a family member (that they live with ) is in the vulnerable group. Any child or teacher who has any sign of illness are being told to stay at home and only return 48 hours after symptoms are gone.