So we are predicted to have the highest death toll in Europe, due to systemic errors made by this government. Do you trust the government to get us out of lock down safely?

[ssd]

I don't. They've f**d up too much. NHS managers are begging for PPE, NHS workers are dying.

This government have really really let us down.

We are predicted to have 40,000 deaths by the end of this.

The only silver lining is is that Labour might get its act together now Keir Starmer is in charge. Things can't get any worse.

And if any tory bots start saying 'at least it's not Corbyn'.. Well save your breath. No one could have made a bigger mess than Boris and Co.

Spain has done 2-3x as much testing as the UK has.

We have not followed WHO best practice on testing, tracing, and quarantine term up to now. We've thrown the care sector and old people under the bus. Those points have nothing to do with population density, or any other issue that makes the UK allegedly 'exceptional'. I want to have confidence in our leadership - we all do. I look with envy at friends in Germany, Denmark, New Zealand and Ireland where the leadership is following WHO guidelines to a T. We're not. We're doing a lot worse. I do not feel we are in safe hands at all, sadly.

No-one will know who manages it best for at least a year and all the current comparisons are pointless. I have no doubt that mistakes have been made (in many countries, not just here) but unless it serves to change the current policy it is pointless politicising it at the moment. No doubt there will be an enquiry in the future.

I look with envy at friends in Germany, Denmark, New Zealand and Ireland

I have family in Ireland, they also have an issue in care homes.

@tontie, and you said

"I feel like a lot of posters will be angry if we don't have the highest death rate..."

I told you before, if that's how you see things I can't have a conversation with you, you are beyond anything I can understood, thinking non tory voters won't be happy until we have the highest death rate,so we can say haha told you.... You aren't worth bothering with.

Alsohuman, I was replying to @Tattiebee, who asked what labour would have done differently..

@Selmaselma

Yes, massively less tax paid in the U.K. compared to Germany. At all levels.

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/money/2017/may/27/tax-britons-pay-europe-australia-us

@tontie every country has outbreaks in care homes. The question is are they following WHO guidelines to respond. Ireland is testing and isolating. Are we? They are starting to test everyone in care homes, regardless of symptoms. Are we?

I know you were ssd

@ssd were have I mentioned the way people vote?

Is angry the same as happy?

Upthread you posted the below

So we should be happy that we have the predicted highest death toll in Europe then? That's OK, that's acceptable? And our only answer to that is at least it isn't Corbyn?

you are beyond anything I can understood

Do you mean understand? It's very difficult to understand you.

You aren't worth bothering with.

Or is it because you can't answer my points or questions or any of the other posters points for that matter 😜

SSD I feel exactly the same. I'm so angry with this government's incompetent and incoherent response which has cost so many lives.

Goverment, ministers, the PM or the civil service who carry out their instructions?.

Would they, Labour, get someone other then say Chris Witty to advise them or a someone else, I think not!

FWIW DD2 who is now on the front line in a large hospital says they have plenty of PPE gear now!

@OliviaPopeRules yup. This is a long game. When the second waves or third waves come we will start to see which tactics have been effective but not until then. History will tell us who got it right but at the moment it's a guessing game with science thrown in.

It may well turn out that Spain, Italy and us have small second waves because most people have had it whereas NZ has no immunity. Or the other way round. Lockdown is about spreading the cases out, not stopping them.

They are starting to test everyone in care homes, regardless of symptoms. Are we?

We are planning to increase testing of staff & workers in care homes according to the briefings so I don't see how that's so different to Ireland.

What do you think Labour would have done differently then? Magic some testing capabilities out of thin air? Miraculously whip up some PPE?

Uh! Germany didn't just magic 750k tests per week out of thin air!
Merkel told their Pharma to start manufacturing in January...Johnson told us to go racing and carry on regardless because we are
"Prepared"
British manufacturing is now producing PPE but they say had they been asked months ago, they could have ramped up earlier but they weren't.
As for the other issues you mention because of lock down... very true but we will now be in lockdown for far longer, Germany after less than 4 weeks is coming out of lockdown, end of the month and children can return to school to sit exams.... what will we be doing? clapping for the NHS lol what a fucking joke.

Johnson went for Herd immunity and that cost us weeks in delayed preparedness.

He is guilty of gross negligence.

My relative died 2 wks ago in a London care home. No symptoms but was tested & it was negative. However her certificate says probable cause corona because they had confirmed cases in the home & couldn't rule out if it was a factor.

I am by no means a tory but I am not critical of the government's handling of the crisis. Of course there are things that could have gone better - like provision of PPE, tracing and testing and extending support to residential and domiciliary care workers. They could have done better in pre-preparedness but many other countries are facing or have faced similar problems - there are world shortages of these supplies.

However, the financial support extended to all parts of the population has been more generous and well thought through compared with many other countries.

We are in the first month of what could be an 18-24 month crisis and it will take a long time to see the long term impacts of this government's policies versus other countries' approaches. Its hardly begun.

We are planning to increase testing of staff & workers in care homes according to the briefings so I don't see how that's so different to Ireland

Massive difference as we aren't doing it until capacity allows and will only test those with symptoms..... by which time they will have infected other residents.

This despite Hancok saying not enough demand for our testing capacity... i call BS on that... there is demand, its just that he is lying about capacity.

things that could have gone better - like provision of PPE, tracing and testing and extending support to residential and domiciliary care workers. They could have done better in pre-preparedness

So, they fucked up everything.

By the time there’s (potentially) an immunisation available, NZ may avoid a steep rise in deaths altogether.

@ssd

I am calling you out OP. You are either a Disaster Capitalist or a Left-Wing Anarchist. Of that I have no doubt.

Try to find the Captain Tom Moore in your soul or Margaret Payne. Do something positive rather than destructive.

According to the Irish Times a third of nursing homes have the virus & potentially half are infected so the genie is already out of the bottle. Plus there a huge difference in the numbers of people in care homes in Ireland vs UK.

The article also mentions the concerns of under reporting of deaths in care homes.

I don't believe any gov when they talk about what they are going to do until they actually do it.

No uk made itself worse though. We had warning and 2w on most of europe.
We let all mass events go ahead.
We went for herd even though that isnt guaranted unlike a flu virus.
Someone was saying 5-6 peaks !
So more like 100k.
If people can make visors at home with printers we can get the plastic aprons somehow.
We cant go on like this for a year without the ppe so they need to manufacture it.
Even if it is say asking manucturing with stuff abroad to to repurpose it to making stuff. In the factories.
We need to slow it down a lot to get ahead of it with technology.
Wuhan though doesnt necessarily mean that people didnt make antibodies more like only 2-3% caught it.
But that does make them 2-3times more immune than their case count. At around 275k people immune. And would reduce their desth rate.
Though i think they have also tested people who were tested positive for antibodies and the younger ones dont have them....
True horror miovie style.

So many fucking keyboard experts, happy to criticise from the comfort of their own armchairs.

... their own armchairs in their locked down houses with not many signs of improvement or exit strategy :(

Someone was saying 5-6 peaks !

Who is ‘someone’? A lot of people are saying a lot of things. ‘Someone’ is not a source.