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Schools

365 replies

Carrotcakeforbreakfast · 17/04/2020 12:04

I know this has been done 1000 times but my search function isn't working.

With the extended lockdown and daily numbers, when do you think the schools are likely to go back.
I believe lockdown won't end anytime soon but just wondering if anyone thinks schools opening will have changed?

OP posts:
RigaBalsam · 17/04/2020 23:47

DBML I am with you there. No wonder there is a retention problem.

goldpendant · 17/04/2020 23:48

I am really intrigued by the variation in teacher engagement with kids during this time. We've literally been given suggested themes to do at home, each with some ideas, links and creative ideas. That's it. The school is open on a skeleton staff (I presume this is rota'd) for approx 6 pupils. We've had zero contact with the school or DC's teachers since they closed. So in my opinion.... I can't honestly say that I think any of the teachers at our school are doing their normal hours. I'm totally in favour of taking a flexible approach to this and would love to see the academic year shift it it were deemed possible. We've ALL had to be flexible in this pandemic. Most ppl I know are working into their evenings or weekends because of their kids being at home. Why shouldn't teachers also be expected to flex too?

BertNErnie · 17/04/2020 23:49

Oh but @Everyexitisanentrance children are not thought to be super spreaders are they? So of course it's safe so send them all back in for the summer and for their to be another peak right when it's flu season as well.

BertNErnie · 17/04/2020 23:52

Goldpeanut many of us have been flexible and will continue to do so. I happily worked the Easter holidays for free (apart from bank holidays as we were closed) and I have also said I am happy to work the half term for free too.

What I refuse to accept is those who suggest I HAVE to give up my unpaid time. I don't have to do anything of the sort.

In terms fo the disparity in context and work, that is something people need to take up with the headteacher of the school. The government have been clear on their expectations of us.

BertNErnie · 17/04/2020 23:53

Goldpendant* typo -sorry!

Itisasecret · 18/04/2020 00:00

Some awful attitudes on here. Upset, and stressed out posters having to block threads. Not even a sorry, constant goading. Obviously #bekind missed some people out. Awful.

BertNErnie · 18/04/2020 00:06

I need to step away from this thread. I'm so annoyed and typing furiously I made the cardinal sin of using their instead of there!

ChocolateCard · 18/04/2020 00:21

For what it’s worth anecdotally, all the high school teachers I know are working exceptionally high hours at home.

The primary school teachers I know are all posting on Facebook about how amazing it is to have so much time off; all the Netflix binging they’re doing; DIY around the house; ‘even stated watching Homes Under The Hammer’.....etc etc

ChocolateCard · 18/04/2020 00:24

Some primary teachers who have their own children have even been posting about how they are enjoying providing 1-2-1 private education for their own kids.

Whilst making no attempt to get in touch with their actual pupils at all Hmm

REdReDRE · 18/04/2020 00:26

I think they'll go back part time in June - half the school at once. I think summer holidays should be as normal. Though if the teachers are working hard at my daughter's school we are yet to see any evidence of it. Hoping they have been working behind the scenes and going to get some guidance and support next week.

They are only allowing children in if both parents are key workers so they have two members of staff and 5ish children in each day (I haven't made a fuss as I can wfh but my husband is a key worker so she should technically be allowed to go).

REdReDRE · 18/04/2020 00:29

Oh, and for whoever was asking, my husband's leave has been cancelled and they are allowing him to carry it over but he's not getting any extra pay or time off for the very long, extra hours he is working as loads of them are off already. However I think opening schools in the planned summer holidays shouldn't happen - if we are allowed out then the children can socialise again and that's the most important thing for their mental health. The academic side will come, I am much more concerned for the children's mental health.

Iateallthecookies000 · 18/04/2020 03:14

Why should my husband save your dying relative for free? Better to go home after 40 hours, that’s what he’s paid for, yes?

My husband is a Doctor and he will be getting his holiday later in the year. Nobody expects him to go to work for free.

cauliflowersqueeze · 18/04/2020 04:41

Teachers aren’t paid to work a certain number of hours a week, they are paid to work a certain number of days a year. It’s really quite a brilliant way of getting more out of people. I work an average of 65 hours in school a week and then I’d say an additional 6 or 7 hours at home over the week. So 71 hours. Ish. That’s every week. There are loads of us who work these hours. Some might work fewer at school and more at home. I’d love to have a 40 hour week. Even a few times. And I could have that if I were a doctor apparently. But I don’t like science or dealing with ill people or the stress of making life or death decisions. And I like my job. But it’s not comparable.

Our contract doesn’t allow for us to be paid for more than 195 days. That won’t change. All our holidays are unpaid except the statutory 4 weeks. People might well volunteer to go into school over the holidays (many have over Easter) but it will not happen that teachers are required to give up their unpaid holidays in order to continue working. It just won’t happen.

We are lucky to get 13 weeks of holiday a year. Definitely. But they are unpaid, they are during all the peak holiday times and we do work during part of them. And those 13 weeks are the shortest school holidays I think in the world. France have 9 weeks just in the summer. Spain I think have longer. And yet still those holidays are not enough to attract enough people into the job. Is it a good idea to cut these and make the profession even more unattractive (I don’t mean this year I mean generally: it’s such a bugbear for so many people!)

I’m very happy to go back to work with full classes once we have no social distancing in place. If that’s in 3 weeks’ time - super. It won’t be.

Yes education will suffer. But health trumps education. And rightly so. Better to have everyone safe at home as far as possible and alive for September than watching this untreatable virus rip through our schools in June and increase the death toll immeasurably.

No matter what some posters think of teachers and how little respect they have for them, I’m willing to bet my whole 13 week annual unpaid holiday that you’d rather have your kids’ teachers alive in September than dead.

EachDubh · 18/04/2020 06:03

Sorry this is far too long. But, i have been up working, in the night, in the holidays as many do. These threads can damage people, those who use a system see only negatives and lies and those who provide it feel burned out and unappreciated. Neither bode well for children, who of course are the heart of the matter when it comes to schools.
It's funny that everyone knows a teacher, as in are good enough friends with to discuss detailed working hours, to be able to say that teachers have it easy and do no work. 🤔👏
Personally I try to be more picky with my friends. I may have worked with a few lazy and work shy teachers over the years, but those that didn't exceed their paid hours are fairly rare and those who don't care rarer still, thankfully.
Teaching has one of highest number of unpaid hours in uk jobs, this has been a consistant finding for years.
www.tes.com/news/teachers-work-more-unpaid-overtime-anyone-else
Most staff work unpaid overtime and spend their own money supporting learners in a massively underfunded sector.
www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/education-47964154
But according to certain people all teachers, primary at least 🙄 ate sitting at home watching daytime tv drinking various hot drinks. And, well, you know, they know, because their best friend, sister, mil, aunt is a teacher and this person is fully representative of a profession.
But, for all you wonderful people out there, be you mn warriers, journalists, the BBC, please keep hoping that these lazy, underworked, overpaid, unchallenged teachers continue to privide your family with the extras, the free stuff, the trips , the equipment, the pastoral care that goes above and beyond, the family support, the free time, the listening ear, the fun stuff that gives happy memories, the stuff that aims to stop abuse, hunger, desperation, family breakdowns. Most of these are expected but not paid for, they go unacknowledged in a profession that is struggling to retain staff.
So sit snug snd happy on that keyboard knowing that teachers and other staff in education are doing nothing to support the virus response. When you pads tgat closed school with a group of children outside in the holidays, remember that work shy member of staff supporting, engaging with them, unpaid, has really spent their unpaid holidays sitting in front of the tv consuming copious amounts of Ben and Jerry's. When the member of staff responds to a parent, at breaking point, at night or at the weekend, out of paid working hours, they were uncaring and lazy, counting their over generous holidays like a miser with his money. Pkease hold them accountable for their lack of flexibility when your child is on a residential trip, overnight. These staff are all having a jolly at your expense, only again, it is unpaid, with no time back or flexi time or reimbursement for their increased childcare costs when they are working away from home unpaid.
Teachers aren't saints, the profession isn't the best it can be, thete are problems and, like every profession tgere are those who don't pull their weight and too often these people are promoted or allowed to carry on without being dealt with. However these are the small minority, but, we are losing our good and great staff, we are losing the goodwill and this will create a change in education that can only be to the detriment of our children.
So when you demand more for free due to a, hopefully, one off crisis, then get upset, or don't believe, when people explain over and over, that doing extra for nothing isn't that unusual, but that they are less willing to give up their holidays, because YOU demand that these lazy workshy staff pull their weight for the sake of parents, the country, for you, they respond negatively not just for their own sake but also for the children's health and because actually they are only just coping as it is. As a profession we will try to do as much as we can. Yes there will be the few who don't pull their weight, please speak to individual schools these people make all our lives worse. But don't push school staff to a breaking point where collectively they stop doing the extras and give the public the educational experience that they pay for.
Please remember, just because you think it is a good idea, or because you are sure you know how little teachers and staff do the chances are you don't and your negative, goady comments actually risk real harm to the families and children who need the goodwill and staff willing to go the extra mile.

motherrunner · 18/04/2020 06:27

I don’t know why I open these threads when I am already at breaking point.

I won’t write a lengthy post as I have justified what I have been doing for the last 4 weeks on others, and I am exhausted.

All I can add is that some parents will get what they wish for - childcare. This is because teachers like me - 20 years experience, work hours to what we believe will make progress in the classroom which is above and beyond the 1265 directed hours we are paid for, actually CARE for our pupils and LOVE the job - we will leave with the vitriol and hatred oozing on these threads.

You will be left with the teachers who roll in just before 9 and leave on the bell, and yes they do exist (in the minority). Teaching will be full of NQTs who are excited, but will leave after a year when they realise views like on here are prevalent, or they fall in category 1 and stay on to just event heir wage. Your children will then actually recent substandard education and you will realise what holds schools together - goodwill and morale which there is little shown to us at the moment.

motherrunner · 18/04/2020 06:31

And if we are getting in the tit for tat debate of ‘I have a friend who is a teacher and doing fuck all’, well I actually do have a friend who is a practice nurse. Surgery is closed. Each day she goes into work and makes calls to her patients and organises admin. No face to face contact at all. Shall I start a thread about lazy NHS workers? No, because I know her role has CHANGED. She isn’t doing less. She is working differently.

Raella50 · 18/04/2020 06:59

What about teachers with young children in term-time nursery places? Will they be magically able to find childcare?? Where? Will they be paying for this for the additional six weeks they’re working for free?

Lelivre · 18/04/2020 07:23

I feel like things might never go back to ‘normal’ including the length of the school day and term timetables. It’s about time school was reimagined and made fit for purpose and equip children from a rapidly changing world. It has until now looked largely as if it did a hundred years ago, the transition from school to work is said by some, to be one of the most challenging of a persons life. Well it shouldn’t be.

I hope flexischooling, homeschooling, remote learning, webinars, online classes will all come to the fore much much more even for younger children. Let’s face it they are comfortable with the technology. It may not suit some but for those who can adapt and families who can accommodate the changes, like mine, lets get to it.

If we all plan to sooner or later insist on our Ts&Cs that just won’t happen. This generation needs to be working from home or remotely long into the future for other reasons, those who can may as well get used to it sooner rather than later.

So much time and energy is saved by remote learning.

As for NHS DH supposes leave period will be extended for two years so it can in due course be taken.

I absolutely will not be negative towards teachers. I do not know what they are going through, I have high regard for ours and I am certain that our school is prepared to adapt and change, at the moment I see they are struggling to do that. However I hope, assuming this will continue, that nationally things will be driven forward that will take the burden off individual schools including individual teachers. It doesn’t make sense to me that every year three teacher in every school in the country however tiny that school, is having to create learning packs and figure out how to stay in touch. This could be made easier for all.

disorganisedsecretsquirrel · 18/04/2020 07:42

motherrunner please don't think we are all as pig ignorant as some posters in MN . I for one think teachers are doing amazing work - are just as important part of the key worker wheel as any others - and it's YOU along with carers and NHS and in fact most public services that I stand and clap for on Thursday nights. Thank you.

After looking after key worker kids or running virtual school there is absolutely no way you should be expected to give up your contracted summer break just because some people can't be arsed to look after their own children. FGS they have only been off two weeks more than the Easter holidays . People really do need to get a grip.

I'm just pleased our headmaster has told us that our school is closed until (at least )September. He is not willing to put his staff at risk and the basic calculation of 23% less staff x bigger classes = No chance of Social distancing.

No ones 'right' to an education is worth the life of a teacher.

No child will lose their life because they can't do the national curriculum for 6 months.

Prairi3Fire · 18/04/2020 07:54

Why on earth do we need or want home learning when all this is over?

We don’t all live in massive houses with multiple studies, space and money for equipment. I have 2 adults and 3 nearly adults fighting for office space, decent equipment and quiet.

There are huge disadvantages to remote learning and working.

And as for restructuring school.Hmm

Itisasecret · 18/04/2020 08:42

Remote learning would be a disaster for children, I’ll point you to Vygotsky and others. It’s not the best way for children to learn. They learn best in a social environment, with others, bouncing ideas and some form of scaffolding. I mean, it’s not like teachers have studied that or anything.

Pomegranatepompom · 18/04/2020 08:51

There is such a range of interaction.
At my DC's school, the teachers are working 1 in 3 weeks, no interaction/marking/feedback and we are sent a very simple worksheet each week. I would imagine it's take less than a day to compile. The school is open 0830-1530 and there are 10 children in the whole school.

School was closed over Easter. I absolutely appreciate other schools are doing more, but the teachers at my DC's school are certainly not working full time hours (and have said this). Like all professions there is a disparity, with some people working and some not working as much. The defensive posts from teachers on here show a lack of awareness.
Also the poster who called parents moronic - really not nice, you should be ashamed of what you write.

I know 6 teachers, all of whom are working not more than 1 in 3 days, 5 work in primary though.

I think there would have not been so many threads if there had been some consistency in work set and interaction and also an aknowledgment of how difficult it is for parents to WFH and teach, rather than all the 'we're not chidcare' comments.

I don't want to work in critical care, but we're all in this together, aren't we?

Waxonwaxoff0 · 18/04/2020 08:52

@Lelivre well I bloody don't. My DS is an only child and as soon as it is safe I want him back at school learning and playing with children his own age, not stuck in the house learning online. I did rubbish at school, I'm no substitute for a teacher that he can see and speak to in person. Plus I need to work outside the home as my job is not possible to do from home.

Homeschooling and remote learning may be good for some but not for others. For me and my DS it would be a disaster and I don't want it forced on us.

Pomegranatepompom · 18/04/2020 08:53

BTW 2 of my colleagues are currently intubated. No one in my hospital has said they are not risking their lives ( & their families) by not going into work.

So are health care workers lives less important?

FlamingoAndJohn · 18/04/2020 08:54

because my suggestion was 2 weeks holiday instead of 6 and that teachers would be paid for their time

But what you failed to take into account was the extra hours for the children. The extra long terms would be too much.

And while we are complaining about school staff sitting at home on full pay ‘doing nothing’ (I’ve been working a full day, it’s not just children facing stuff I have to do you know), no one ever mentions other government paid staff that are not working. Museum staff, library staff, council gym staff, leisure centre staff.
This is teacher bashing pure and simple.