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Schools

365 replies

Carrotcakeforbreakfast · 17/04/2020 12:04

I know this has been done 1000 times but my search function isn't working.

With the extended lockdown and daily numbers, when do you think the schools are likely to go back.
I believe lockdown won't end anytime soon but just wondering if anyone thinks schools opening will have changed?

OP posts:
Xenia · 18/04/2020 15:03

We need to decide if it is better to destroy children and their relationships to keep them "safe" from something that will not damage them or allow them to be close to others. Schools are going to have to be very careful to stop children bullying others too by saying you have covid because you are fat or black or Chinese or your mother is a nurse or whatever else.....

FT article says

Denmark edges towards reopening as children return to school

Classes cut in half and lessons taught outside to limit infection risk as primary schools reopen

When eight-year-old Isabella Ivraeus returned to school in the Danish city of Aarhus on Wednesday, it was hard to miss her excitement — or that of her parents.

“She was so happy to see her friends again — they hadn’t seen each other apart from FaceTime for five weeks,” said her father Poul-Erik Ivraeus, who runs his own investment business from home in Denmark’s second-largest city.

As his wife is a doctor, Mr Ivraeus had to look after their two children — Isabella and five-year-old Theodor, who is at kindergarten — much of the time and he admitted it had been hard to work efficiently. “It felt like Saturday every day,” he said: “You can’t open businesses if you keep the kindergartens closed. It’s the only way to reopen society.”

Denmark became the first European nation to reopen its primary schools and kindergartens this week after a coronavirus lockdown, in a move likely to be heavily scrutinised across the continent as other countries examine how and when to lift restrictions.

The decision was taken after what Mette Frederiksen, the prime minister, called the “surprising” success of its lockdown, with daily deaths declining after reaching a peak two weeks ago. The country has reported 321 deaths and 6,879 cases.

Starting on Wednesday, hundreds of thousands of under-12s — who are less able than older students to study independently at home — returned to classrooms that are both familiar and different.
Some classes are being held outside as a safety precaution after Denmark reopened schools, but uneasy parents are still keeping their children at home © Bo Amstrup/Ritzau Scanpix/AP

Schools have been left to decide themselves how to manage the main requirement — that pupils are kept 2m apart. Classes have been split in two in much of the country, with one teacher for every 10 or 11 students. Children are sent outside as much as possible, even for some classes, and play exclusively in subgroups of students from their class to limit the risk of spreading the virus. Some students have been allocated a shorter school day to allow others to access resources at different times.

“It has been a huge task to make all the plans and logistics. The students have been very patient and the reopening has been without any problems. All our routines are new and everything takes more time, but we will find our way,” said Jette Bjorn Hansen, headteacher at Isabella’s school, Frederiksbjerg.

Teachers had seen “all kinds of feelings” from pupils, Ms Hansen said. But most had been very happy to return to school.
Editor’s note

The Financial Times is making key coronavirus coverage free to read to help everyone stay informed. Find the latest here.

But not everybody was so keen. A Facebook group called “my child should not be a guinea pig for Covid-19” soon got tens of thousands of members. While many schools said they had attendance rates over 90 per cent, some parents chose to keep their children away.

Jannie Duunkjaer, who works for an animal protection charity, has decided to keep her six- and seven-year-olds at home but send her 12-year-old son to school in Allerod, about 30km north of the Danish capital Copenhagen. “It worries me a great deal to just send my children to school. Basically because we have been told repeatedly for over a month to keep our distance, how serious this virus is and how extremely important it is to not take all these new restrictions lightly,” she said.

As so much about the virus is unknown, Ms Duunkjaer said she believed any reopening should start with “people who understand the rules and guidelines and why they are there”. Her oldest child was allowed to return as he “is able to manage all the restrictions”, she said.

“I worry that the young children in Denmark are being used as guinea pigs,” she added. “No one knows for sure what the effect will be with this opening.”
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Other countries are set to follow Denmark soon. Germany will start opening its schools early next month, while Norway’s kindergartens will open on Monday and parts of its primary schools a week later. Primary schools in Sweden were never closed. Kindergarten workers in Norway will each look after three children aged under three or six aged between three and six. They will avoid contact with other children.

Cecilie Harrits, the Aarhus head of Skole og Foraeldre, an organisation for primary school parents, said many of the challenges were practical.

As classes had been split in two with separate classrooms and teachers, there was a potential lack of space and teachers. Schools were renting tents or using scout facilities for teaching and public playgrounds for break times, she added.

Problems could also arise if staff became ill because staffing was so tight, Ms Harrits said.

For now, she said, the children were coping well with their new school life. It was harder for parents having to weigh reports that young children were scarcely at risk from Covid-19 with their sense of how precious they were. “We have to balance good sense and feelings all the time,” she added. “We all have rational and irrational thoughts.”

Prairi3Fire · 18/04/2020 15:09

They have far more outdoor space and are using tents and extra staff to facilitate social distancing.Thanks to the Tories many school don’t have a school field or outdoor space anymore. Many are already using corridors to teach classes in. We aren’t Dennark.

BlessYourCottonSocks · 18/04/2020 15:11
Flowers
Itisasecret · 18/04/2020 15:13

We aren’t Denmark, we are understaffed, over crowded and have tiny spaces in comparison. Any school with land has basically seen it sold off for building. Social distancing is hard enough as it is with key worker children, it’s not in children’s nature. Our schools are too small, to overcrowded and understaffed to follow Denmark’s model. I’m not sure why we are being compared to them, it wouldn’t be possible here. Too many cuts over too long a time.

Prairi3Fire · 18/04/2020 15:15

Bet they had smaller classes too before all this.

Hippofrog · 18/04/2020 15:16

I just know I’ll see Grandparents the playground when the schools open. People will still want to use the older generation for childcare and risking their lives. I really hope we don’t go back to soon and kill a lot of people.

SmileEachDay · 18/04/2020 15:19

Denmark has had around 7000 confirmed cases and 346 deaths.

UK has had 114,000 confirmed cases and 15,000 deaths.

We are not Denmark.

Missingminieggs · 18/04/2020 15:25

Does anyone think part time school could work here? So splitting the week 15 in 2.5 days and the other 15 the other 2.5?

Lunches in classrooms and playtimes only in the small class groups?

Every school building is different, my ds1 is at secondary and his school building is huge and spacious with vast outdoor space. Some of the local comps are absolutely tiny and cramped.

I just don't think you can get small children to socially distance, but sticking in small groups could work?

Before the schools closed ds1s teacher had told ds that schools are safe places as it's the same people going in every day and they've already been exposed to each other, I have no idea if there's any truth in that. I'd like to see the evidence of risk in schools, whether children are actually big carriers of the virus.

Letseatgrandma · 18/04/2020 15:28

If they have split classes into two in Denmark and now have classes of ten, their classes are much smaller than ours to begin with.

We’d need to split each class into three and then need a huge number of teachers. That’ll be difficult with so many vulnerable staff off and if all schools are doing the same, there will be insufficient supply teachers available.

That’s if we had any rooms to put three times as many groups of children in! We have one small playground and a tiny field-you could have a group in each providing it wasn’t freezing, boiling or raining, and another in the hall.

Then, we’d only have 12 more classrooms to magic out of thin air!

Missingminieggs · 18/04/2020 15:28

We are not Denmark but surely we are going to have to find a way to make this work at some point? Otherwise the schools will just stay closed until a vaccine programme has been rolled out.

Even then, we don't know who will be eligible for the vaccine.

Prairi3Fire · 18/04/2020 15:30

Thing is I suspect most classes could only fit 10 in if distances were adhered to. You’ve then got playtime to deal with as that is very hard to police and then lunch all together, walking down corridors , using sinks( some classrooms don’t have running water to continuously hand wash)and toilets..... Some schools have a lot of children.

Letseatgrandma · 18/04/2020 15:31

I just don't think you can get small children to socially distance, but sticking in small groups could work?

It’s still difficult at the moment but I’d say we are managing it with the key worker children-we’ve only had 8-10 in over the Easter holidays and that’s been workable in a classroom.

15? No. That wouldn’t be social distancing. Denmark have said 10 max-I would say that’s manageable.

Denmark also have testing and good cleaning regimes. Tea ladies doing disinfecting...?!

Prairi3Fire · 18/04/2020 15:32

If you split classes in to 3 they’d only get 1 and a half days each, not much use to parents which is I’m guessing the main reason many call for schools to be opened ASAP.

Missingminieggs · 18/04/2020 15:33

But could they have groups of 15 that were only allowed to mix with each other?

Would that be safer than 200-400 children all mingling throughout the building?

Missingminieggs · 18/04/2020 15:35

I'm just talking out of the sky really. I'm just imagining if they split classes in two and allowed that group of 15 to mix but only in the set groups. Almost treating the group as a household. Might be easier to isolate and trace if anyone was unwell.

Prairi3Fire · 18/04/2020 15:35

They’d need to be distanced and many classrooms won’t fit in more than 10 at a distance. Many schools have 2 or even 3 form entry. So 14 classes say, split into 3 and all needing to use the playground and eating facilities. All for parents to have 1 and a half days kid free. Even then with siblings they may well be at home with another child.

Everyexitisanentrance · 18/04/2020 15:36
Flowers
Prairi3Fire · 18/04/2020 15:38

Missing what about staff?Not sure I’d want to be close to 15 children without social distancing or protection.

Grasspigeons · 18/04/2020 15:40

Prairi3Fire - it might not be much use for parents but would it be good for the children? If it was a 1 to 10 ratio they could set the child up for their distancd learning and give a bit of 1 to 1 time. I dont know. Its just a pondering.

Missingminieggs · 18/04/2020 15:41

You just can't distance children though can you? Not with the numbers and buildings we have here. I have one child in reception and one in secondary and I do not see how children can be kept apart.

But that goes for everything, playgrounds, swimming, team sports, soft play.

So what's the alternative, keep children at home like this for the foreseeable?

Mine are ok at the moment but if this went on and on I dread to think.

sonicshoegazes · 18/04/2020 15:41

Well we changed the classes and the registers over for September start.

So make of that what you will.

Missingminieggs · 18/04/2020 15:44

If there no vaccine rollout by September the social distancing in schools is still going to be a problem.

Letseatgrandma · 18/04/2020 15:46

We could implement ten to a class with an adult, but the children wouldn’t obviously be in every day.

Prairi3Fire · 18/04/2020 15:46

We’re not allowed to get close to them so I’m not sure how much benefit there is educationally. I can’t sit close to explain,discuss,draw or write things out. Can’t get close to check answers. I find it really frustrating. If it was more chalk and talk with kids listening all day I guess it would be better.They can’t share resources. Have you see the threads re handling paper and food packaging etc? Confused

MaryBerrysBomberJacket · 18/04/2020 15:49

We've just been talking about this is my work group chat. We've worked out that with social distancing of 2m my department can fit 125 kids at best due to classroom size. We have 14 labs but some are A level, so they are designed for 12 students max, and will fit 4 in distanced (although I normally have 23 in one of these and students literally sit with a board over a sink to make a desk...). We are a school of just under 2000 without year 11 and year 13 (normally 2500). We certainly can't do full timetables with that at all.